Former Swiss Intelligence Officer blows the whistle on West's Ukraine War Narrative

[Scott]

no more referendums unless it's part of a peace deal to determine sovereignty
Even then Kyiv and the USA wiil always say Russian favorable referendums are illegitimate

You may well be right that it's best to avoid any further referendums until there is peace or at least an agreement for peace. I'm glad that Russia decided to do it at least the once though, as it focuses attention on what the people in Eastern Ukraine want instead of the false notion that Russia is simply attacking Ukraine.

 

[Scott]

Phoenyx, respectfully, I am not interested enough in analyzing Zelensky to pursue your own opinions in any depth. We both surmise on the strength of third party reports which themselves are sometimes spurious. Further, politicians lie. Zelensky's own appraisals of Zelensky cannot be trusted to be accurate.

I certainly agree that Zelensky's own appraisals of Zelensky should be viewed with caution, most people are somewhat biased in relation to themselves, but I don't believe I ever cited any of his own appraisals of himself. As a matter of fact, I don't believe I've ever seen one.

Better- for me- to await the outcome of Biden's Nord Stream war in order sort the propaganda wheat from the propaganda chaff.

I imagine the mid term elections held today will play a part on how the Ukraine war goes.

 

[Scott]

The Russian opinions of the mid-terms ought be interesting- if we were ever allowed to know what they are.

The western media tends to pounce on any evidence that Russians are unhappy with Putin and his government and also that they're supportive of the west in any way. Russia's media, by contrast, tends to do the opposite. By looking at both, I think we can get a decent picture once the mid term elections produce results.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

In point of fact, of the 3 nations you mention above, only 1 of them actually voted with Russia, North Korea. The other 3 countries to do so were Belarus, Syria and Nicaragua:

UN votes on Ukraine's ‘territorial integrity’ | RT


China was one of the 35 countries that abstained from voting.

As to Iran and 7 other countries, they haven't been able to vote for a while due to not paying sufficient member dues:

Iran loses vote at United Nations over unpaid dues | thenationalnews.com

If you don't know that China is supplying Russia, then Putin is keeping you out of the loop, dear.

 

[Scott]

If you don't know that China is supplying Russia, then Putin is keeping you out of the loop, dear.

Still can't resist disrespecting me I see.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Still can't resist disrespecting me I see.

I have no respect for socks or anti-American foreign agents.

 

[moon]

Still can't resist disrespecting me I see.

Uncle - of the purple dick- is still miffed that you're not a female that he can bully- so he just imagines that you are.



Haw, haw................................haw.

 

[moon]

Dutch Uncle

When you think of my purple dick do you picture it fully erect and throbbing, Ms. Moon? https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...tation-as-military-superpower-shattered/page6 #83

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...tation-as-military-superpower-shattered/page6 #83

I have no respect for socks or anti-American foreign agents.

You don't know where America is, you purple-dicked dumbass.

Haw, haw.............................haw.

 

[Scott]

Uncle - of the purple dick- is still miffed that you're not a female that he can bully- so he just imagines that you are.



Haw, haw................................haw.

Yeah, he's something alright. I've asked Damocles if he could thread ban him from this thread.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yeah, he's something alright. I've asked Damocles if he could thread ban him from this thread.

He will, but it may take a day or two.

Please tell Putin to go fuck himself and that I hope a Russian patriot throws his cray-cray ass out of a 10th floor window.

 

[Scott]

He will, but it may take a day or two.

Here's to hoping. I will say this Dutch- there are times when you bring up good points. But when you start with the insults, the constructive conversation with you comes to an end.

 

[moon]

Yeah, he's something alright. I've asked Damocles if he could thread ban him from this thread.

What ? The Mauve Member ? Aw.....I'll have nobody to lampoon.


Haw, haw.................................................haw.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Here's to hoping. I will say this Dutch- there are times when you bring up good points. But when you start with the insults, the constructive conversation with you comes to an end.

The only "insult" I've made against you is recognizing you as a female, anti-American foreign sock.

Truth is never an insult, dear.

 

[Scott]

The only "insult" I've made against you is recognizing you as a female, anti-American foreign sock.

Truth is never an insult, dear.

The truth can be insulting, but in this case, all you've got are falsehoods. I'm a male Canadian-Mexican and far from being anti American, actually appreciate the efforts many in the U.S. make to keep it free. Scheerpost, an article of which I link to in the opening post of this thread, was started by American journalist Robert Scheer. In case you've never heard of him, here's Wikipedia's introduction to him:

**
Robert Scheer (born April 4, 1936) is an American left-wing journalist who has written for Ramparts, the Los Angeles Times, Playboy, Hustler Magazine, Truthdig, Scheerpost and other publications as well as having written many books. His column for Truthdig was nationally syndicated by Creators Syndicate in publications such as The Huffington Post and The Nation. He is a clinical professor of communications at the Annenberg School for Communication & Journalism at the University of Southern California. Scheer is the former editor in-chief for the Webby Award-winning[1] online magazine Truthdig.[2] For many years, he co-hosted the nationally syndicated political analysis radio program Left, Right & Center on National Public Radio (NPR), produced at public radio station KCRW in Santa Monica.[3] The Society of Professional Journalists awarded Scheer the 2011 Sigma Delta Chi Award for his column.[4]
**

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Scheer

Your accusation that I am a sock is also false. Until recently, I didn't even have an account here. Perhaps most telling of all, originally, I thought you were the friendly sort and responded to many of your posts in that spirit.

 

[McRocket]

Agreed.




Based on what you've said, plus information I myself have read, I believe that the votes in Donetsk and Lugansk regions were done well. There have been reporters I trust that have covered Donetsk region, such as Eva Bartlett and Patrick Lancaster. However, I never thought that the fairness of the vote might not be the same in other regions. So yes, I certainly believe that having another vote in those other regions with (more?) international observers would be a good thing.

Well said.

I agree 100%.

 

[moon]

Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
Agreed.




Based on what you've said, plus information I myself have read, I believe that the votes in Donetsk and Lugansk regions were done well. There have been reporters I trust that have covered Donetsk region, such as Eva Bartlett and Patrick Lancaster. However, I never thought that the fairness of the vote might not be the same in other regions. So yes, I certainly believe that having another vote in those other regions with (more?) international observers would be a good thing.

I guess that China, India, Iran, North Korea, Belarus, Pakistan etc. would be happy to provide observers.

 

[Tranquillus in Exile]

Mariupol was NOT inside the DPR.

I didn't say it was. I said it's in Donetsk Oblast, which it is.

After the Russian liberation, which flattened the city and killed up to 20,000 citizens, Mariupol is now in the Donetsk People's Republic. Presumably it took part in Putin's referendum in September which found an impressive 99% in favor of joining Russia. Phoenyx can vouch for the figures.

My apologies for not replying earlier. I had a little run-in with online scammers last Saturday and I haven't followed this thread since.

 

[McRocket]

I didn't say it was. I said it's in Donetsk Oblast, which it is.

After the Russian liberation, which flattened the city and killed up to 20,000 citizens, Mariupol is now in the Donetsk People's Republic. Presumably it took part in Putin's referendum in September which found an impressive 99% in favor of joining Russia. Phoenyx can vouch for the figures.

My apologies for not replying earlier. I had a little run-in with online scammers last Saturday and I haven't followed this thread since.

Answer the fucking question or stop wasting my time.
Okay...I will make it even easier for you:

True or false?
The VAST majority of the people inside the LPR, DPR and Crimea (pre-February 24) did NOT want to be part of Ukraine.
True or False?

 

[Scott]

I didn't say it was. I said it's in Donetsk Oblast, which it is.

After the Russian liberation, which flattened the city and killed up to 20,000 citizens, Mariupol is now in the Donetsk People's Republic. Presumably it took part in Putin's referendum in September which found an impressive 99% in favor of joining Russia. Phoenyx can vouch for the figures.

My apologies for not replying earlier. I had a little run-in with online scammers last Saturday and I haven't followed this thread since.

Answer the fucking question or stop wasting my time.
Okay...I will make it even easier for you:

True or false?
The VAST majority of the people inside the LPR, DPR and Crimea (pre-February 24) did NOT want to be part of Ukraine.
True or False?

I don't see any reason to be upset with Tranquillus here. It's true he didn't answer your question, and I think it's fine to point that out, but he also raised an important question of his own, namely what do the people of Mariupol think about joining Russia. I imagine many may not be aware of the fact that before Russia taking control of it, the Ukrainian military had taken control of it after Euromaidan in 2014. They killed off a fair amount of the Mariupol police force at the time too. Some may refuse to take a look simply because it was produced by Russia's RT network, but I think that their documentary on Mariupol's recent history is educational. It can be seen here:

Mariupol: A Homecoming | RT

Here's their description of the documentary:

**
Some are miners, some guards. Here is a journalist. Press. Drivers, electricians. I worked in Moscow for 11 years. Came home on the 24th [February 2022]. And then straight down here. I was supposed to work at DonTech,” a Donbass militiaman in the Mariupol suburbs recalls. He and his comrades in arms are getting ready to enter the city. Most of the Donbass militiamen are ordinary people. They never had combat training or military experience. However, they are prepared to risk their lives to stop Ukrainian nationalists from taking their land. During the battle for Mariupol, the Donbass militia fought alongside the Russian Army to liberate the city. These people went through fierce combat to save civilians locked in their houses by Ukrainian nationalists. See the Mariupol battlefield from their perspective in our new film.
**

 

[Tranquillus in Exile]

Answer the fucking question or stop wasting my time.
Okay...I will make it even easier for you:

True or false?
The VAST majority of the people inside the LPR, DPR and Crimea (pre-February 24) did NOT want to be part of Ukraine.
True or False?

I don't know the fucking answer.

The only remotely independent figures I have seen are from a survey by Pew Research Center in 2014, after Putin annexed Crimea but before the troubles in Mariupol and other places. They found that in eastern Ukraine 58% of Russian speakers wanted the country to remain united, while 27% thought regions should be allowed to secede if they wished.
Read about it here:
https://web.archive.org/web/2014050...es-Ukraine-Russia-Report-FINAL-May-8-2014.pdf

Are all the Russian speakers and the vast majority of Ukrainian speakers in the Donbas now pro-Russian? It’s not impossible, I suppose.


Btw, the scammers didn’t get anything out of me last weekend, it was just aggravation. Thanks for asking.