Russia’s ‘Dirty Bomb’ Scare

Scott

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I was looking at an article published today on the New York Times that, while having good information, was also way too dismissive of Russia's concern of Ukraine using a "dirty bomb". This one, to be precise:
Russian Military Leaders Discussed Use of Nuclear Weapons, U.S. Officials Say | New York Times


So I thought it'd be good to put out an article from a former marine intelligence officer, suggesting that Russia's concerns are quite real, regardless of whether they are mistaken on the probability of it occurring. Here's the introduction to his article:

**
October 25, 2022

Russia appears to be legitimately concerned about the possibility of Ukraine building and using a “dirty bomb,” so much so that it has taken the unprecedented step of reaching out to multiple senior Western defense authorities.

by Scott Ritter

In the span of a few hours on Sunday, the senior-most Russian defense authorities — Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu and General Gennady Gerasimov — called their counterparts in the U.S., U.K., France, and Turkey, with the same message — Ukraine is preparing to detonate a so-called “dirty bomb”— high explosive-wrapped radiological material, designed to contaminate large areas with deadly radioactive isotopes.

Russia is not only concerned about the immediate impact of Ukraine detonating such a devise in terms of the harm that would be done to people and the environment, but also about the potential for such an event to be used by Ukraine’s western allies to directly intervene militarily in the ongoing conflict, similar to what occurred in Syria when allegations about the use of Sarin nerve agent by the Syrian government against civilians were used by the U.S., U.K., and France to justify an attack on Syrian military and infrastructure targets. (It turned out that the allegations of Sarin use were false; the jury is still out about the use of commercial chlorine as a weapon.)

Russia is to raise the matter at the U.N. Security Council on Tuesday, Reuters reported.

**

Full article:
Scott Ritter: Russia’s ‘Dirty Bomb’ Scare | Consortium News
 
I was looking at an article published today on the New York Times that, while having good information, was also way too dismissive of Russia's concern of Ukraine using a "dirty bomb"....

Ukraine gave up their nukes after the Cold War ended. They've been regretting that decision since 2014.

Putin is a dictator. The best solution to this mess is for his own people to throw him out of a window and pull out of Ukraine.
 
Ukraine gave up their nukes after the Cold War ended. They've been regretting that decision since 2014.

You seem to be assuming that Russia would have just let their U.S.S.R. issue nukes had they disagreed. From what I heard, that wasn't going to happen.

Putin is a dictator. The best solution to this mess is for his own people to throw him out of a window and pull out of Ukraine.

I know that's the popular opinion in the west, but I don't agree. If Putin was assassinated and there was even a hint that it was done on behalf of, or at least influenced by, the west, I can easily imagine someone much more hardline replacing him. There are many articles that suggest that Putin is not the most hardline politician in Russia by a long shot. Even the New York Times article above makes it clear that it wasn't Putin who had been discussing the use of nuclear weapons. Quoting from it:

**
WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

President Vladimir V. Putin was not a part of the conversations, which were held against the backdrop of Russia’s intensifying nuclear rhetoric and battlefield setbacks.

But the fact that senior Russian military leaders were even having the discussions alarmed the Biden administration because it showed how frustrated Russian generals were about their failures on the ground, and suggests that Mr. Putin’s veiled threats to use nuclear weapons might not just be words.

**


I think it's also important to remember that Russia's lower house of Parliament urged Putin to recognize the Donbass republics on February 15, 6 days before Putin finally agreed to do so.

What got Russia's Parliament to urge Putin to recognize these republics and what got Putin to finally agree to their request is instructive. I've found that few people are aware of the true story, and many have a hard time believing it. I've decided that in order to avoid the charge of spamming the story due to constantly disagreeing with those who believe the west's official story line, it's best to create a thread the evidence for this alternative narrative and simply reference it if needed. With that in mind, I've done that. The thread in question can be seen here:

Former Swiss Intelligence Officer blows the whistle on West's Ukraine War Narrative | justplainpolitics.com
 
You seem to be assuming that Russia would have just let their U.S.S.R. issue nukes had they disagreed. From what I heard, that wasn't going to happen....

You heard wrong. Here's good point regarding the difference between people who read about history and those who lived it. :)

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia was a fucking basket case. They even had a minor civil war with tanks shooting up the Russian White House in 1993: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis

The Soviets had deployed nukes in their satellite nations. After the collapse, they were trying to secure their own nukes in country amid all the turmoil.

Along with the collapse of a nation is the collapse of its economy. The US and other free nations were concerned about terrorists acquiring "loose nukes" and worked with Russia to secure the weapons....although it's not completely certain all were accounted for.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/nukes/timeline/

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/loose-nukes
 
You heard wrong. Here's good point regarding the difference between people who read about history and those who lived it. :)

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia was a fucking basket case. They even had a minor civil war with tanks shooting up the Russian White House in 1993: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis

The Soviets had deployed nukes in their satellite nations. After the collapse, they were trying to secure their own nukes in country amid all the turmoil.

Along with the collapse of a nation is the collapse of its economy. The US and other free nations were concerned about terrorists acquiring "loose nukes" and worked with Russia to secure the weapons....although it's not completely certain all were accounted for.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/nukes/timeline/

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/loose-nukes


If there's some quote in one of your linked articles that says that Russia would have just let Ukraine mosey on off with the U.S.S.R.'s nukes, by all means, quote it. From what you just said, it seems even the U.S. wasn't exactly thrilled at the prospect of Ukraine keeping the nukes.
 
If there's some quote in one of your linked articles that says that Russia would have just let Ukraine mosey on off with the U.S.S.R.'s nukes, by all means, quote it. From what you just said, it seems even the U.S. wasn't exactly thrilled at the prospect of Ukraine keeping the nukes.
Russia was a basket case. What do you think they'd do? Invade Ukraine?

The US was concerned with rogue nations and terrorists acquiring the weapons as noted in the links. That came up again 10 years later in Iraq.

Also noted in the link is not the weapons themselves but the fissionable material. It's not difficult to build an atomic bomb but it's very difficult to produce enough U238 for a bomb. Dirty bombs are much easier to construct and can be made out of medical devices.

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-terrorists-dirty-common-medical-device.html
Scientific experts warned Congress more than a decade ago that just four teaspoons of radioactive cesium-137—if spread by a terrorist's "dirty bomb"—could contaminate up to 10 square miles of Manhattan.

The material is commonly found across the United States. Hospitals, blood banks and medical research centers use it in devices called irradiators, which sterilize blood and tissue. Hundreds of the devices are licensed for use, including at least 50 in Southern California....

...A STRANGE GLOWING MATERIAL

Evidence of the damage cesium could cause emerged tragically in 1987 in Goiania, Brazil, an interior city about 800 miles northwest of Rio de Janeiro.

In September of that year, two people entered an abandoned site that had once housed a radiation-therapy clinic that utilized cesium. After prying loose some of the metal equipment, they loaded it into a wheelbarrow, hoping to sell pieces as scrap.

That evening, both men began to vomit. It wasn't until two weeks later—after the equipment and the strangely glowing material inside it had changed hands through two scrap yards and become a source of fascination for adults and children—that a local physicist persuaded authorities to take action.

A monitoring station set up in a local stadium screened more than 112,000 people for possible cesium contamination. Forty-nine houses were demolished or decontaminated and about 4,500 tons of soil were hauled away, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

In the end, four people died and hundreds had to be decontaminated.

Soon thereafter, the breakup of the Soviet Union increased the availability of radioactive materials at military facilities that had become neglected.
 
Russia was a basket case. What do you think they'd do? Invade Ukraine?

From what I heard, I believe they would have just sabotaged the nuke facilities or at most bombed said facilities before letting Ukraine walk away with them.

The US was concerned with rogue nations and terrorists acquiring the weapons as noted in the links. That came up again 10 years later in Iraq.

I'm glad they were concerned at the time, as I think having Ukraine give them up voluntarily was far preferrable then the alternative envisioned above, with the added "bonus" of some possibly being carted away by terrorists as well.

Also noted in the link is not the weapons themselves but the fissionable material. It's not difficult to build an atomic bomb but it's very difficult to produce enough U238 for a bomb. Dirty bombs are much easier to construct and can be made out of medical devices.

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-terrorists-dirty-common-medical-device.html

Which is possibly why Russia is concerned that Ukraine may be planning on detonating one. I don't know how good their intelligence is, but if there's a chance that Ukraine is or at least was planning on detonating such a device, I think we can all agree that it was a good thing that they alerted their western counterparts on what they had heard.
 
From what I heard, I believe they would have just sabotaged the nuke facilities or at most bombed said facilities before letting Ukraine walk away with them...


...Which is possibly why Russia is concerned that Ukraine may be planning on detonating one.

You might have benefitted by reading and understanding the links, dear.

Of course Russia is concerned about retaliation for their invasion of Ukraine and mass murder of Ukrainian civilians.

Do you think Russia committed war crimes in Ukraine, or do you think it's all NATO propaganda? Something else?
 
You might have benefitted by reading and understanding the links, dear.

Sorry for the confusion, I imagine you thought of the X-men's phoenix and thought that I must be a woman, but I'm actually a man. I admit I really like the Phoenix character though and it's a large part of the reason that I chose my name (the y in it has a reason of its own). As to reading the links, I still might at some point, but seeing as how you brought them up as apparent evidence you were making, I thought it'd make more sense for you to just quote the relevant portions rather than me go looking for your evidence for you.

Of course Russia is concerned about retaliation for their invasion of Ukraine and mass murder of Ukrainian civilians.

Do you think Russia committed war crimes in Ukraine, or do you think it's all NATO propaganda? Something else?

Glad you asked. I actually made a thread in this forum that covers this issue quite well. Feel free to take a look at it here:
Former Swiss Intelligence Officer blows the whistle on West's Ukraine War Narrative | justplainpolitics.com
 
Sorry for the confusion, I imagine you thought of the X-men's phoenix...

Glad you asked. I actually made a thread in this forum that covers this issue quite well. Feel free to take a look at it here:
Former Swiss Intelligence Officer blows the whistle on West's Ukraine War Narrative | justplainpolitics.com

I haven't seen the movies, but Phoenyx is as girl's name: https://www.babycenter.com/baby-names/details/phoenyx-96975

One of the fun things I enjoy about JPP is the number of people who will look at 100 reports then cherry-pick the one that fits their desired narrative.

Sorry, ma'am but I'm more of an Occam's Razor guy, not a conspiracy theorist.
 
Dutch Uncle
2Purple.jpg
When you think of my purple dick do you picture it fully erect and throbbing, Ms. Moon? https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...tation-as-military-superpower-shattered/page6 #83
I'm more of an Occam's Razor guy

I'm not sure that purple dicks and razors are a good mix.




Haw, haw, haw, haw, haw........................haw.................hawx2...............haw.
 
I imagine you thought of the X-men's phoenix and thought that I must be a woman, but I'm actually a man.

Just in time. Another couple of posts and the Dutch pervert would have been exposing himself.




Haw, haw, haw..............................hawx2..........................haw.
 
I was looking at an article published today on the New York Times that, while having good information, was also way too dismissive of Russia's concern of Ukraine using a "dirty bomb". This one, to be precise:
Russian Military Leaders Discussed Use of Nuclear Weapons, U.S. Officials Say | New York Times


So I thought it'd be good to put out an article from a former marine intelligence officer, suggesting that Russia's concerns are quite real, regardless of whether they are mistaken on the probability of it occurring. Here's the introduction to his article:

**
October 25, 2022

Russia appears to be legitimately concerned about the possibility of Ukraine building and using a “dirty bomb,” so much so that it has taken the unprecedented step of reaching out to multiple senior Western defense authorities.

by Scott Ritter

In the span of a few hours on Sunday, the senior-most Russian defense authorities — Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu and General Gennady Gerasimov — called their counterparts in the U.S., U.K., France, and Turkey, with the same message — Ukraine is preparing to detonate a so-called “dirty bomb”— high explosive-wrapped radiological material, designed to contaminate large areas with deadly radioactive isotopes.

Russia is not only concerned about the immediate impact of Ukraine detonating such a devise in terms of the harm that would be done to people and the environment, but also about the potential for such an event to be used by Ukraine’s western allies to directly intervene militarily in the ongoing conflict, similar to what occurred in Syria when allegations about the use of Sarin nerve agent by the Syrian government against civilians were used by the U.S., U.K., and France to justify an attack on Syrian military and infrastructure targets. (It turned out that the allegations of Sarin use were false; the jury is still out about the use of commercial chlorine as a weapon.)

Russia is to raise the matter at the U.N. Security Council on Tuesday, Reuters reported.

**

Full article:
Scott Ritter: Russia’s ‘Dirty Bomb’ Scare | Consortium News

Utter stupidity


Contaminate the land the people are fighting and dying for?




How lame a claim



Putin would be the one who would do this


If he can’t have it


Then he will destroy it



Simple human common sense tells you who would do this
 
I haven't seen the movies, but Phoenyx is as girl's name: https://www.babycenter.com/baby-names/details/phoenyx-96975

Dang it :-/. I'd never heard the name before, thought it could be seen as gender neutral. Ah well :-/. I guess I'll just have to be the exception to the rule. Wouldn't be the first time.

One of the fun things I enjoy about JPP is the number of people who will look at 100 reports then cherry-pick the one that fits their desired narrative.

Jacques Baud's article has links to sources. If you're ever interested in discussing it, you know where the thread is.

Sorry, ma'am [snip]

Alright, you know I'm a guy now, so now you're just trying to get my goat. So I'll cut off your response at this point. The way I do things, generally speaking, when people start being disrespectful to me, I figure they're not worth more of my time. I tend to stop reading when I see signs of disrespect, so I tell people that if they're going to insult me, do it near the end, as I tend to respond to things up until I start seeing said disrespect. You did wait until near the end, so kudos to you for that.
 
Just in time. Another couple of posts and the Dutch pervert would have been exposing himself.

DU does seem to have a penchant of trying to get to people if they don't agree with him on something. As I just told him, I tend to stop listening to people as soon as it's clear that they're disrespecting me. If he wants me to listen, he'll respect me. As I mentioned to him, if finds it impossible not to use some invective with those who he dislikes, he should save it until as late in the message as possible, as I tend to stop listening as soon as the disrespect starts.
 
I was looking at an article published today on the New York Times that...

Utter stupidity

I write a long opening post for this thread, citing 2 different articles, and you start off with that. As I just told Dutch Uncle, as soon as I see signs that a poster doesn't respect me or the hard work I put into making threads is around the time that I stop listening to what they have to say in a post.
 
Dang it :-/. I'd never heard the name before, thought it could be seen as gender neutral. Ah well :-/. I guess I'll just have to be the exception to the rule. Wouldn't be the first time.


Jacques Baud's article has links to sources. If you're ever interested in discussing it, you know where the thread is.

Alright, you know I'm a guy now, so now you're just trying to get my goat. So I'll cut off your response at this point. The way I do things, generally speaking, when people start being disrespectful to me, I figure they're not worth more of my time. I tend to stop reading when I see signs of disrespect, so I tell people that if they're going to insult me, do it near the end, as I tend to respond to things up until I start seeing said disrespect. You did wait until near the end, so kudos to you for that.
You can change your username, Miss.
smiley6702.gif


Thanks, but I'll stick with Occam's Razor....along with Hanlon's Razor. I've been associated with the military and US government one way or another for all of my life up until retirement a couple years ago. Hanlon's Razor applies to a lot of things associated with bureaucratic organizations.

How do I know you're a guy? Just because you told me? You're also pushing conspiracy theories for Putin and against the US. Why should I trust anything you say? Have you ever heard the phrase "Once a liar, always a liar"?
 
I write a long opening post for this thread, citing 2 different articles, and you start off with that. As I just told Dutch Uncle, as soon as I see signs that a poster doesn't respect me or the hard work I put into making threads is around the time that I stop listening to what they have to say in a post.

Limit your detractors message


See how well that works for you


If you want to debate


Stop taking things personally
 
Utter stupidity


Contaminate the land the people are fighting and dying for?




How lame a claim



Putin would be the one who would do this


If he can’t have it


Then he will destroy it



Simple human common sense tells you who would do this

You are taking the word of Russians promoted by Putin


You made an mistake right away
 
I write a long opening post for this thread, citing 2 different articles, and you start off with that. As I just told Dutch Uncle, as soon as I see signs that a poster doesn't respect me or the hard work I put into making threads is around the time that I stop listening to what they have to say in a post.

Why are you promoting Russian propaganda as valid?
 
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