Tesla Model 3 named winner in KBB’s 5-Year Cost to Own Awards 2022. MAGA wets panties

Walt said:
I can currently take EVs (if you include electric trains) from London to Hong Kong with more ease than a ICE. Texas has lagged on electrifying rails, to its own cost. Europeans are shocked how much more it is to ship by train in the USA.
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And all those EVs are powered by fossil fuels. Just like ICE powered cars are. ;)
 
T. A. Gardner said:
If you don't include electric trains, you can't drive an EV from London to Hong Kong at all. But you can drive an ICE vehicle between those two cities...

Find the charging station as your battery goes flat...

5b23afff15e9f96fe6738e67.jpg
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Salty comes out with some serious bullshit at times.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
you can't drive an EV from London to Hong Kong at all. But you can drive an ICE vehicle between those two cities...
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There is this thing called the Channel. If you try to drive most cars through it, they will sink, and you will drown.

Then there is the Trans-Siberian Highway, which is at best iffy. You are not allowed to take cars between Russia and China, or between China and Hong Kong, so you would have to drive some sort of truck... Which is illegal unless you are a Chinese citizen. The Chinese do not respect foreign drivers licenses, unless you have a diplomatic passport, so you would need to stop at the Chinese border and get a Chinese drivers license.

I know in your fantasy, Americans can drive anywhere they want, always on the right hand side of the street... But the reality is very different. And that is just off the top of my head. I am sure if I thought about it more, I would come up with more problems.

T. A. Gardner said:
Find the charging station as your battery goes flat...
Click to expand...

There is only one land method to get from London to Hong Kong, and it is electric trains all the way.

As for a car, Russia has had 100% electrification as the goal for over a hundred years. They almost always have access to electricity. Gas stations are seen as problems, and there is no drive to make sure they are available.
 
Into the Night said:
There is no electric train from London to Hong Kong.
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London only allows electric trains (whether for passengers or cargo), so you get on an electric train, then you pass through the Chunnel(the only tunnel under the Channel), which only allows electric trains. France, Germany, and Poland all use electric trains mostly, and usually ban non-electric trains from most of their lines. When you hit Belarus, there is a gauge break, so you have to switch trains, but you are getting back on an electric train. The Trans-Siberian Railroad through Russia is all electric. Then you switch to another electric train at the Chinese border, which will take you all the way to Hong Kong. Only electric trains are allowed into Hong Kong.

There are two gauge breaks requiring switching trains, and there are a few other train switches in there, but they are all electric trains... If it is a cargo train, those electric trains can get quite big, and if it is a passenger train, they can get quite fast.
 
Joe Capitalist said:
Hey, if they swallowed Trump's Big Lies, they'd swallow any right wing bullshit they read about EVs.
They can bitch and lie about EVs all they want. I'll just sit back and watch more EVs roll off the assembly line and watch EV sales and my Tesla stock skyrocket.

Haw... Haw.............haw
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They sound like the people who used to say horses could take you anywhere, but ICE cars were useless for travel.
 
ExpressLane said:
And all those EVs are powered by fossil fuels. Just like ICE powered cars are. ;)
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EV's are power source agnostic, meaning that whatever power sources you use to produce electricity is fine for them. In a country like France, that would mostly be nuclear, which is not a fossil fuel.
 
Walt said:
EV's are power source agnostic, meaning that whatever power sources you use to produce electricity is fine for them. In a country like France, that would mostly be nuclear, which is not a fossil fuel.
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So EV owners are just virtue signaling :laugh: EV's vehicles are at best town cars and terrible cross country cars.
 
I am pretty sure that Tesla's position is that we never own the cars they make. They can certainly brick them anytime they want.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
This is wrong. EV's have higher maintenance costs. They are more complex and difficult to troubleshoot due in large part to the complexity of their electronics and the use of a heavy and difficult to access battery. For most EV's you can toss in that their quality is so pathetically bad, that they spend more time in the shop due to their just being a shitty quality product.
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You see...why do you people that hate EV's make up this shit?
No offense, but you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about on this and just are guessing.

How POSSIBLY could an electric motor need more maintenance than an ICE (internal combustion engine).
How much maintenance have you EVER done on ANY electric motor in ANY appliance you have ever had?
Even the bloody GM website says that their Chevy Bolt EV requires less maintenance.

And batteries need maintenance?
Where did you get that one?
Does you phone battery need maintenance?
I have NEVER heard of a phone battery, EVER needing maintenance.
And they are the EXACT, same type of battery in most EV's (Lithium Ion).
In fact, ALL a Tesla battery pack is, is hundreds of tiny, 'AA' battery-shaped Lithium Ion batteries - attached together.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/tesla-batteries-better-than-expected-1.3888199
Look on YouTube?
Any schmuck with even tiny, electrical knowledge can build a car/bicycle battery.
They are relatively simple.

Besides, EV manufacturers include HUGE, battery warranties.
Chevy's is 8 years.
Do you really think they would offer that if it was going to cost them a bundle to service the battery?
Of course not.
https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/living-electric/complete-care

And electronics?
Electronics have no moving parts.
How much maintenance have you done on your PC/laptops/smartphones?
I have never done ANY.
And most of them work fine.
Even one's that are 10 years old.
I have my first iPhone 3GS I bought in 2009 and I still use it for a clock for sleeping.
It works fine.

'The correct answer is that you don’t need to do anything to maintain your electric vehicles’ main motor and electric drivetrain. Nowadays, electric motors are so reliable that your EVs other components will fail first before the motor. Even every internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle comes with a starter motor that never fails.

The motor and electric drive units have lubricating oil. However, almost all EVs do not require to change this lubricating oil for its lifetime. For example, the motor of any Tesla cars — Model 3, Model S, Model X — do not need to replace the motor lubricating oil.'
https://provscons.com/maintenance-required-for-electric-cars/

And ask ANYONE who runs an auto parts store.
They HATE EV's because they need such tiny amounts of maintenance.

'As a rough estimate, electric vehicles have about 1/10th of the ongoing requirement for repair and replacement parts.'

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4177868-evs-disrupt-retail-auto-parts


As for GM's EV 1, that was just another bad decision by then CEO Rick Wagoner who admitted later it was one of his worst decisions--out of a lot of bad decisions. The decision was based more on a desire by Wagoner to continue ICE production and saw the EV 1 as a freak product with no particular relevance to GM's product line in general.
Click to expand...

The EV1 came about because of California's proposed zero emission law.
PERIOD.

'The decision to mass-produce an electric car came after GM received a favorable reception for its 1990 Impact electric concept car, upon which the design of the EV1 drew heavily. Inspired partly by the Impact's perceived potential for success, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) subsequently[when?] passed a mandate that made the production and sale of zero-emissions vehicles (ZEV) a requirement for the seven major automakers selling cars in the United States to continue to market their vehicles in California.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#Costs

Wagoner is full of it.
GM had NO CHOICE.
They HAD to build an EV for California (their biggest market).
But later...California backed off from the law, and GM was off the hook.

GM HATED EV's because they have such tiny maintenance requirements and they last so long....this hurts their dealer networks as up to 50% of all profits for these businesses comes from parts and service.
Wagoner was lying to cover up the fact that ALL major manufacturers HATE EV's because they have such low maintenance costs.
Plus, it is very difficult for manufacturers to make money on EV's.
Especially way back then.
Tesla NEVER posted a yearly profit for the first 13 years.

Why the fuck would GM destroy every EV1 they could get their hands on?
And refused to let the owners keep theirs, once the leases ran out?
The answer is obvious - they did NOT want people to get used to EV's low maintenance/operating costs.



You seem like a relatively, level-headed guy.
Do yourself a favor and do not guess about something you do not understand.

EV's cost far, FAR less to use and maintain than ICE's.

But they are expensive to buy.
 
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McRocket said:
You see...why do you people that hate EV's make up this shit?
No offense, but you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about on this and just are guessing.

How POSSIBLY could an electric motor need more maintenance than an ICE (internal combustion engine).
How much maintenance have you EVER done on ANY electric motor in ANY appliance you have ever had?
Even the bloody GM website says that their Chevy Bolt EV requires less maintenance.

And batteries need maintenance?
Where did you get that one?
Does you phone battery need maintenance?
I have NEVER heard of a phone battery, EVER needing maintenance.
And they are the EXACT, same type of battery in most EV's (Lithium Ion).
In fact, ALL a Tesla battery pack is, is hundreds of tiny, 'AA' battery-shaped Lithium Ion batteries - attached together.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/tesla-batteries-better-than-expected-1.3888199
Look on YouTube?
Any schmuck with even tiny, electrical knowledge can build a car/bicycle battery.
They are relatively simple.

Besides, EV manufacturers include HUGE, battery warranties.
Chevy's is 8 years.
Do you really think they would offer that if it was going to cost them a bundle to service the battery?
Of course not.
https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/living-electric/complete-care

And electronics?
Electronics have no moving parts.
How much maintenance have you done on your PC/laptops/smartphones?
I have never done ANY.
And most of them work fine.
Even one's that are 10 years old.
I have my first iPhone 3GS I bought in 2009 and I still use it for a clock for sleeping.
It works fine.

'The correct answer is that you don’t need to do anything to maintain your electric vehicles’ main motor and electric drivetrain. Nowadays, electric motors are so reliable that your EVs other components will fail first before the motor. Even every internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle comes with a starter motor that never fails.

The motor and electric drive units have lubricating oil. However, almost all EVs do not require to change this lubricating oil for its lifetime. For example, the motor of any Tesla cars — Model 3, Model S, Model X — do not need to replace the motor lubricating oil.'
https://provscons.com/maintenance-required-for-electric-cars/

And ask ANYONE who runs an auto parts store.
They HATE EV's because they need such tiny amounts of maintenance.

'As a rough estimate, electric vehicles have about 1/10th of the ongoing requirement for repair and replacement parts.'

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4177868-evs-disrupt-retail-auto-parts




The EV1 came about because of California's proposed zero emission law.
PERIOD.

'The decision to mass-produce an electric car came after GM received a favorable reception for its 1990 Impact electric concept car, upon which the design of the EV1 drew heavily. Inspired partly by the Impact's perceived potential for success, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) subsequently[when?] passed a mandate that made the production and sale of zero-emissions vehicles (ZEV) a requirement for the seven major automakers selling cars in the United States to continue to market their vehicles in California.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#Costs

Wagoner is full of it.
GM had NO CHOICE.
They HAD to build an EV for California (their biggest market).
But later...California backed off from the law, and GM was off the hook.

GM HATED EV's because they have such tiny maintenance requirements and they last so long....this hurts their dealer networks as up to 50% of all profits for these businesses comes from parts and service.
Wagoner was lying to cover up the fact that ALL major manufacturers HATE EV's because they have such low maintenance costs.
Plus, it is very difficult for manufacturers to make money on EV's.
Especially way back then.
Tesla NEVER posted a yearly profit for the first 13 years.

Why the fuck would GM destroy every EV1 they could get their hands on?
And refused to let the owners keep theirs, once the leases ran out?
The answer is obvious - they did NOT want people to get used to EV's low maintenance/operating costs.



You seem like a relatively, level-headed guy.
Do yourself a favor and do not guess about something you do not understand.

EV's cost far, FAR less to use and maintain than ICE's.

But they are expensive to buy.
Click to expand...

You clearly have ZERO knowledge of electronics or electric motor control systems. As for batteries:


When something electronic with many cards and software involved, goes wrong it can take a technician hours to find the issue and then replace the bad card (big $$$$) or fix the software. This isn't something any technician can do quickly and consistently. I know from decades of experience.

The major manufacturers hate EV's because they are not nearly as profitable as selling ICE vehicles. They know if forced to sell them, they can do so at cost or above with no discount since they don't give a shit about their small impact on total sales. The only way EV's have been able to enter the market with any significance is that government(s) mandate them, give out huge subsidies (aka bribes) to buyers, and other incentives. People simply don't want the fucking things on their own.

Yea, sure, some Greentards and other morons, along with rich Leftists will buy them mostly for virtue signaling, but the average buyer wants no part of one.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
You clearly have ZERO knowledge of electronics or electric motor control systems. As for batteries:
Click to expand...

One, fucking video about one, fucking, bad battery means NOTHING.

And HELLO you ignoramus?
ALL EV's have long, battery warranties.
GM's is 8 years.
What fucking difference does it make if something did go wrong with an owner's battery?
It would cost them NOTHING to fix it.
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/living-electric/complete-care

This is from a FORD DEALERSHIP:

'WHAT MAINTENANCE IS NECESSARY FOR MY ELECTRIC VEHICLE?
Ford Mustang Mach-E on the Road
As aforementioned, very little is necessary. Simply due to the lack of a combustion engine. '

https://www.lafayetteford.com/what-are-the-maintenance-costs-and-requirements-for-an-electric-car/


THIS IS FROM KIA'S U.S. WEBSITE:

'The simple answer is: Electric vehicles require considerably less maintenance than fuel-powered cars.'

https://www.kia.com/eu/about-kia/ex...n/how-much-maintenance-do-electric-cars-need/

And I can find TONS of links that say the same thing.

Do you understand it yet?

Or can you not fucking read?

Fucking, closed-minded dinosaur.
 
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Joe Capitalist said:
There's a reason why every major auto manufacturer is now selling EVs.
Click to expand...

I still remember when American car companies were demanding bailouts because they had not produced fuel efficient cars like the Japanese had. I do not want to have to bail them out, yet again.
 
ExpressLane said:
So EV owners are just virtue signaling :laugh: EV's vehicles are at best town cars and terrible cross country cars.
Click to expand...

How many people really need to go cross country? Most "cross country cars" are just conspicuous consumption. It is a sad attempt by balding men to change the subject from their balding.
 
Walt said:
How many people really need to go cross country? Most "cross country cars" are just conspicuous consumption. It is a sad attempt by balding men to change the subject from their balding.
Click to expand...

"They are not grooming us to go green, they are grooming us to go without."
Neil Oliver
 
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