Starbucks raises worker wages except if unionized

Bullshit. Illegals aren’t taking middle-class jobs as you are asserting.

Virtually all the carpenters, painters, trim and finish guys are Hispanic and most are illegals. Plaster and drywall? All illegals. Masons? Heavily illegals. Roofing? Heavily illegals. Those used to be middle class jobs and they paid much more than they do now in terms of real earnings.
 
Virtually all the carpenters, painters, trim and finish guys are Hispanic and most are illegals. Plaster and drywall? All illegals. Masons? Heavily illegals. Roofing? Heavily illegals. Those used to be middle class jobs and they paid much more than they do now in terms of real earnings.
That is a lot of exaggeration, undocumented make up about 25% on average of the construction work force.

https://cdn.americanprogress.org/co...81.508290061.1612545024-2015160577.1603194421
 
Virtually all the carpenters, painters, trim and finish guys are Hispanic and most are illegals. Plaster and drywall? All illegals. Masons? Heavily illegals. Roofing? Heavily illegals. Those used to be middle class jobs and they paid much more than they do now in terms of real earnings.

Link? How many blonde haired, blue-eyed illegals do you know?
 
It’s a company 401k with union negotiated matching.

Not all people or groups are the same no matter how many racists, genderists or anti-unionists claim they are.
That's true, but your union misappropriated funds. They all do because they can.
 
Virtually all the carpenters, painters, trim and finish guys are Hispanic and most are illegals. Plaster and drywall? All illegals. Masons? Heavily illegals. Roofing? Heavily illegals. Those used to be middle class jobs and they paid much more than they do now in terms of real earnings.
Yea. I'm not sure which side of the fence he's going to choose.

But not all of the non English speaking workers are illegals. They just choose to live in a 4 bedroom house with 2 or 3 families and bank their money.

The overwhelming majority probably are, though
 
That is a lot of exaggeration, undocumented make up about 25% on average of the construction work force.

https://cdn.americanprogress.org/co...81.508290061.1612545024-2015160577.1603194421
I think your link makes his point?

Notable occupations•

Undocumented immigrants make up a disproportionate share of the constructionworkforce, and undocumented workers are disproportionately likely to work inconstruction. One in 5 undocumented workers are employed in a constructionrelated sector; more than 1 in 10 construction workers are undocumented—doublethe rate of workers as a whole.

We do tend to lump all immigrants together, and we tend to call them all Mexicans, when that isn't accurate. Splitting hairs, many could have work visas that will expire, making them actual 'illegals'. I think the point is that unions are losing work to cheap labor. Illegal or not.

But if unions price themselves out of the market, so be it. They are more than protected on govt. jobs, and other large jobs where unions typically provide enough labor to accomplish the job on time.

Unions have a long history of screwing their members in a number of ways.
 
That's true, but your union misappropriated funds. They all do because they can.

Awesome. Now you know why I trust Democrats as little as I do Republicans. Both of you are pro-management and anti-labor. :)
 
LOL. You wanna try that again?

6fje59.jpg


Smart people get the need for balance. Management stooges and Union lackies not so much.
 
Yea. I'm not sure which side of the fence he's going to choose.

But not all of the non English speaking workers are illegals. They just choose to live in a 4 bedroom house with 2 or 3 families and bank their money.

The overwhelming majority probably are, though

No, usually the lead guys are legal citizens, at least that's been my experience. The illegals work fast and can make things look good, but in my experience, they'll take every shortcut and hide crappy work if they can get things done faster. You can always tell when an illegal did electrical work, there's electrician's tape on everything...
 
Immigrants certainly do not like unions, money for nothing.

Management loves them, union workers don’t want them. As this thread proves, the authoritarians on both the Left and the Right support corporate domination of workers…and tacitly supporting illegals.
 
No, usually the lead guys are legal citizens, at least that's been my experience. The illegals work fast and can make things look good, but in my experience, they'll take every shortcut and hide crappy work if they can get things done faster. You can always tell when an illegal did electrical work, there's electrician's tape on everything...
I have a lot of it here too. They are typically hired by an American. Nobody speaks English, and they obey orders to a letter, with no ability to think on the fly. The owner shows up, gets them working, and then leaves.

So...I saw plumbing workers that attached new Pex to rotten copper lines. But... they were told to run new Pex from 'here' to 'here'. The fact that a hidden rotten water source was found after the boss left doesn't matter. They did exactly what they were told.

Guys were running chain link fence around a rather large price of property. First they cleared the saplings from the property lines, cutting trees, poly water lines, and anything else that was in their way. This is a summer community that I've been familiar with for more than 25 years. I used to be friendly with the old owners, but they sold recently to ultra orthodox Jews who bring contractors up from the city. All Spanish labor. After they were done and the new summer people moved in, one unit had problems with the sewer main.


That isn't possible, because I fixed that line with my friend a year prior. I surveyed the property, and told them exactly what happened. The fence crew was digging fence post holes, and came across white PVC pipe a few feet down. What did they do? They kept digging, broke the line, and filled the hole with concrete and a fence post. Now they needed a crew with a backhoe to dig the line and repair a large section.

I'm always finding 14 wire on receptacles with 20 amp breakers. As I mentioned earlier...roofing is one thing. Other construction trades really need to spend the money on real help.
 
I have a lot of it here too. They are typically hired by an American. Nobody speaks English, and they obey orders to a letter, with no ability to think on the fly. The owner shows up, gets them working, and then leaves.

So...I saw plumbing workers that attached new Pex to rotten copper lines. But... they were told to run new Pex from 'here' to 'here'. The fact that a hidden rotten water source was found after the boss left doesn't matter. They did exactly what they were told.

Guys were running chain link fence around a rather large price of property. First they cleared the saplings from the property lines, cutting trees, poly water lines, and anything else that was in their way. This is a summer community that I've been familiar with for more than 25 years. I used to be friendly with the old owners, but they sold recently to ultra orthodox Jews who bring contractors up from the city. All Spanish labor. After they were done and the new summer people moved in, one unit had problems with the sewer main.


That isn't possible, because I fixed that line with my friend a year prior. I surveyed the property, and told them exactly what happened. The fence crew was digging fence post holes, and came across white PVC pipe a few feet down. What did they do? They kept digging, broke the line, and filled the hole with concrete and a fence post. Now they needed a crew with a backhoe to dig the line and repair a large section.

I'm always finding 14 wire on receptacles with 20 amp breakers. As I mentioned earlier...roofing is one thing. Other construction trades really need to spend the money on real help.

Says the anti-unionist/pro-management lackey. Corporations looooove illegals; they charge customers the price of full paid labor then pocket the difference by paying illegals a substandard wage.
 
6fje59.jpg


Smart people get the need for balance. Management stooges and Union lackies not so much.
That wasn't the question. You claimed that illegals aren't taking away middle class jobs, and then you argued the opposite.

Which is it?



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Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle

Bullshit. Illegals aren’t taking middle-class jobs as you are asserting.

althea said:
Isn't that the point? You stated that they aren't taking jobs. Minimum wage is still 1/2 to 2/3 of what skilled labor would be paid outside of a union. Roofing is one thing. A chimp can do it. Once they move forward to other phases of construction, I find the quality of work lacking.

Arresting business owners is one way to end the problem. Including the thousands who pay American workers cash every day.

Dutch Uncle said:
Once again I have to decide if you are intentionally misquoting me or if you are simply, to put it nicely, seeing what you want to see.
 
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