GOP talking point: if you oppose SCOTUS decision, you're against democracy

Flash said:
It must not be inherent if it was only recently discovered. Does a woman (or man) have the inherent right to be a prostitute or use drugs or have sex at 17?

I think it is more of a political than a constitutional rights issue. I favor keeping it legal in my state, but it is hard to find a constitutional justification for that right.
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Those are poor comparisons.

If nothing else, America is - or was - about individual liberty.

Forcing a woman to carry a fetus from conception to term is like something from the dark ages. It gives no consideration to her individual rights. It's completely misogynistic and draconian.
 
BartenderElite said:
It is not always a voluntary act. And well beyond the usual "rape & incest" exception (which many states aren't even planning on making).
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It is always a voluntary act except in the cases of rape and statutory rape what the hell are you talking about?

That accounts for 1.5 abortions per year and that's being generous, if we allow abortions in the cases of rape and incest through statutory rape would you agree to banning the rest of abortions? Didn't think so.
 
FreeSpeech1789 said:
That accounts for 1.5 abortions per year and that's being generous, if we allow abortions in the cases of rape and incest through statutory rape would you agree to banning the rest of abortions? Didn't think so.
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Where did you get 1.5? Like I said, it goes well beyond rape & incest (which are very hard to prove in court, btw). Birth control is nowhere near 100% effective in many cases. There are many unplanned pregnancies.

We shouldn't be judging these things or trying to parse them. Women should have a right to terminate pregnancies in the 1st trimester.
 
BartenderElite said:
Where did you get 1.5?
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USA Today IIRC, I'll look for a link.

OK it was 1.5% not 1.5:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ew-abortions-so-why-all-attention/1211175001/

Like I said, it goes well beyond rape & incest (which are very hard to prove in court, btw).

Birth control is nowhere near 100% effective in many cases. There are many unplanned pregnancies.
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Don't care if it was unplanned, still a voluntary act to have sex, live with the consequences of your actions even unintended consequences or put the kid up for adoption.


We shouldn't be judging these things or trying to parse them. Women should have a right to terminate pregnancies in the 1st trimester.
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No, you don't have the right to murder babies, that were created through your own bad decisions, science demonstrates that a new human life with completely unique DNA is formed at Inception, I would be willing to bend on rape and statutory rape as it is the result of force and coercion but the DNC won't even bend on late term abortions as proven by supposed moderates like Senator Ryan out of Ohio who reiterated that on Bret Baier the other day.
 
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FreeSpeech1789 said:
USA Today IIRC, I'll look for a link.

OK it was 1.5% not 1.5:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ew-abortions-so-why-all-attention/1211175001/



Don't care if it was unplanned, still a voluntary act to have sex, live with the consequences of your actions even unintended consequences or put the kid up for adoption.





No, you don't have the right to murder babies, that were created through your own bad decisions, science demonstrates that a new human life with completely unique DNA is formed at Inception, I would be willing to bend on rape and statutory rape as it is the result of force and coercion but the DNC won't even bend on late term abortions as proven by supposed moderates like Senator Kaine out of Ohio who reiterated that on Bret Baier the other day.
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People who support late-term (when the mother's life isn't threatened) are just as extreme and fringe as those who don't support choice in the 1st trimester.
 
BartenderElite said:
Those are poor comparisons.

If nothing else, America is - or was - about individual liberty.

Forcing a woman to carry a fetus from conception to term is like something from the dark ages. It gives no consideration to her individual rights. It's completely misogynistic and draconian.
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Yes, I am all for that individual liberty but some believe liberty involves protecting life. I don't agree, but in a democracy all of our votes are equal. Also, there are many examples of America not supporting individual liberty.

Comparing it to the dark ages is also not a good comparison because that implies women have long had the right to abortion. But, as the history of this issue is described in the draft, it has not even been a long-standing debate or fight in the U. S.

Most people support a court decision if they like the results, but I think that is poor constitutional law. The court took a convoluted path to reach its conclusion. And, they stretched it even further when they divided it into trimesters--certainly, there is no justification in our Constitution for claiming a woman's right to end her pregnancy differs by trimester.
 
FreeSpeech1789 said:
USA Today IIRC, I'll look for a link.

OK it was 1.5% not 1.5:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ew-abortions-so-why-all-attention/1211175001/



Don't care if it was unplanned, still a voluntary act to have sex, live with the consequences of your actions even unintended consequences or put the kid up for adoption.





No, you don't have the right to murder babies, that were created through your own bad decisions, science demonstrates that a new human life with completely unique DNA is formed at Inception, I would be willing to bend on rape and statutory rape as it is the result of force and coercion but the DNC won't even bend on late term abortions as proven by supposed moderates like Senator Kaine out of Ohio who reiterated that on Bret Baier the other day.
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ROTFLMFAO!!!! When did Kaine move to Ohio? For fucks sake, at least read a little bit so you don't come off as a complete fucking moron.
 
I care very little about who says what, and I make no effort to remember such.....it is True/Not True that matters to me.......I am here for the education.

You people who do nothing but lob bombs at each other should be ashamed of yourselves.

But you are not are you...

Buckle Up.
 
FreeSpeech1789 said:
Sorry meant Tim Ryan.
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Ryan is a US Representative, not a Senator. And no, the Women's Health Protection Act does not allow 'late term' abortions. It removes the restrictions applied by the states that prevent access to abortions. It is a response to the nonsensical laws like the one in Texas.
 
Concart said:
Ryan is a US Representative, not a Senator. And no, the Women's Health Protection Act does not allow 'late term' abortions. It removes the restrictions applied by the states that prevent access to abortions. It is a response to the nonsensical laws like the one in Texas.
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He's running against JD Vance for Senate.

Late term abortion is legal in numerous states using the mental health exemption. And when asked directly by Baier if late term abortion should be outlawed Ryan answered that it should be up to the woman.
 
BartenderElite said:
People who support late-term (when the mother's life isn't threatened) are just as extreme and fringe as those who don't support choice in the 1st trimester.
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Bartender,

Does the woman's right to end a pregnancy have any time limit or does it extend to near the time of birth?
 
Flash said:
Bartender,

Does the woman's right to end a pregnancy have any time limit or does it extend to near the time of birth?
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My own personal view is that consciousness & viability are the 2 most important considerations.

But, it's not about what I think. The court's 1st trimester solution was elegant, and an excellent compromise between the 2 sides.
 
BartenderElite said:
My own personal view is that consciousness & viability are the 2 most important considerations.

But, it's not about what I think. The court's 1st trimester solution was elegant, and an excellent compromise between the 2 sides.
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If women have an innate right to abortion, where does the Constitution allow government to restrict that right and determine a time limit?

One reason for the legal criticism of Roe was claiming the Constitution provided time limits for abortion.
 
Flash said:
If women have an innate right to abortion, where does the Constitution allow government to restrict that right and determine a time limit?

One reason for the legal criticism of Roe was claiming the Constitution provided time limits for abortion.
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They have an innate right to privacy & dominion over their own bodies.

The Constitution doesn't provide time limits, or talk about abortion specifically. Technically, one could argue that it would legally support abortion at ANY time. But Roe is a compromise between the competing rights of the mother and the unborn.
 
Taking anything that comes out of a Republican's, conservative's, libertarian's, or religious fundamentalist's mouth as anything but malignant drivel
is a catastrophic failure on one's part.
 
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