Swedish military will be a NATO force multiplier

we are creating either a broken supple Russia to NATO or a permanent belligerence in eastern Europe.
I think the later since China and Asia an support Russian energy exports.
Russia can support itself without western trade

This is worse then anything during the Cold War.
NATO's thinking is ;) "so what we can beat the Russians"
and their weapons ( a shitload of advanced in air ground and sea) prove it true.

Ukraine isn't superior forces,but it's quantified superior weapons

Meaning this war is never going to end. when it goes Cold; east west war will still be smouldering
And STILL . not one word from any one in NATO about peace. They love this proxy war by all accounts
 
dukkha said:
we are creating either a broken supple Russia to NATO or a permanent belligerence in eastern Europe.
I think the later since China and Asia an support Russian energy exports.
Russia can support itself without western trade

This is worse then anything during the Cold War.
NATO's thinking is ;) "so what we can beat the Russians"
and their weapons ( a shitload of advanced in air ground and sea) prove it true.

Ukraine isn't superior forces,but it's quantified superior weapons

Meaning this war is never going to end. when it goes Cold; east west war will still be smouldering
And STILL . not one word from any one in NATO about peace. They love this proxy war by all accounts
Click to expand...

NATO didn't attack anyone, and NATO didn't start any wars.

Putin did. In Georgia, in Crimea, in Ukraine.

The fact is we do need to weaken Russia and render them incapable of invading anymore of their European neighbors. At this point in history, Russia is a rogue state led by a war criminal.
 
Cypress said:
Thanks Vlad!

25 April 2022 - Sweden and Finland agree to apply for NATO membership


Swedish armed forces are the 12th most powerful in Europe, and the 31st most powerful in the world

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bu...ost-powerful-militaries-in-europe-2018-11?amp
Click to expand...

The more nations that unite behind freedom and fair democratic societies against authoritarian regimes, the better.

Notice that those who support Putin and Trump are authoritarians which is antithetical to the last several hundred years of Western ideals about individual rights and freedoms.

Examples being John Donne's 1623 'No Man is an Island'* and John Locke's** many quotes like “Being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions.”

Does anyone associate the words of Donne or Locke with Putin or Trump? Not me.

*https://web.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/island.html
No man is an island,
entire of itself;
every man is a piece of the continent,
a part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less,
as well as if a promontory were.
as well as if a manor of thy friend’s
or of thine own were.
Any man’s death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind;
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee.

** Locke born in 1632. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke/ one of the first great defenses of modern empiricism and concerns itself with determining the limits of human understanding in respect to a wide spectrum of topics. It thus tells us in some detail what one can legitimately claim to know and what one cannot.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
The more nations that unite behind freedom and fair democratic societies against authoritarian regimes, the better.

Notice that those who support Putin and Trump are authoritarians which is antithetical to the last several hundred years of Western ideals about individual rights and freedoms.

Examples being John Donne's 1623 'No Man is an Island'* and John Locke's** many quotes like “Being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions.”

Does anyone associate the words of Donne or Locke with Putin or Trump? Not me.

*https://web.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/island.html
No man is an island,
entire of itself;
every man is a piece of the continent,
a part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less,
as well as if a promontory were.
as well as if a manor of thy friend’s
or of thine own were.
Any man’s death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind;
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
it tolls for thee.

** Locke born in 1632. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke/ one of the first great defenses of modern empiricism and concerns itself with determining the limits of human understanding in respect to a wide spectrum of topics. It thus tells us in some detail what one can legitimately claim to know and what one cannot.
Click to expand...

It seems to be mostly Trump supporters who admire Vlad Putin, as does the notorious French Islamophobe Marie Le Pen.
 
Cypress said:
NATO didn't attack anyone, and NATO didn't start any wars.

Putin did. In Georgia, in Crimea, in Ukraine.

The fact is we do need to weaken Russia and render them incapable of invading anymore of their European neighbors. At this point in history, Russia is a rogue state led by a war criminal.
Click to expand...

Dookie is an anti-American, pro-Putin activist. I keep hoping his neighbor's find out what a true POS he really is.
 
Guille said:
12th most powerful in Europe you say? Oh my!
Click to expand...
^^MAGA Putin-supporter.

Your buddy Vlad is freaking out that Sweden is joining NATO.

Sweden punches way above it's weight, and Swedish military doctrine privileges their air force which is one of the best in the world for it's size
 
Cypress said:
^^MAGA Putin-supporter.

Your buddy Vlad is freaking out that Sweden is joining NATO.

Sweden punches way above it's weight, and Swedish military doctrine privileges their air force which is one of the best in the world for it's size
Click to expand...

No, Sweden doesn't. It's invested in tanks when the sea is it's weakness. Sweden is no impediment to Russia at all.
 
Guille said:
No, Sweden doesn't. It's invested in tanks when the sea is it's weakness. Sweden is no impediment to Russia at all.
Click to expand...

You need to respond to what I actually wrote, not to what you wish I wrote.

The thread title indicates the professional and well equipped Swedish armed forces are a substantial force multiplier for NATO.

Not that they could fend of a Russian incursion by themselves.

From a tactical perspective Swedish armed forces enhance NATO more than Portugal, Belgium, Iceland, Romania, Netherlands, Slovenia, Luxembourg, Croatia, Denmark, Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia do.
 
Cypress said:
NATO didn't attack anyone, and NATO didn't start any wars.

Putin did. In Georgia, in Crimea, in Ukraine.

The fact is we do need to weaken Russia and render them incapable of invading anymore of their European neighbors. At this point in history, Russia is a rogue state led by a war criminal.
Click to expand...
invading a NATO country is BS and you know it. Ukraine is unique in that it is a hostile state on it's border
You can't weaken Russia militariliy - if you keep trying they will use tactical nukes

But dont't listen to me. Keep it up.
NATO expansion even further gives credence to Putin's "surrounded by NATO"
That and a hostile Ukraine means Russia is much more likely to lash out, given no other alternative

Years and years I've said diplomacy (in good faith) is how we deal with Russia -not militarization and expansion
The legacy will be a east/west cold war with breakouts in Ukraine - that country will suffer further
and you will increase the chance for a NATO/Russian war
 
Im of the opinion NATO doesn't even want peace to interfere with their proxy war -at least the more aggressive states like the USA

Not one damn NATO state has said anything about peace talks except maybe Turkey
 
It's about time a nation as advanced as Sweden abandons its neutrality nonsense and gets into NATO where it belongs.
You know how I feel about "independents."

Of course, if we make Grover Cleveland II out of the pigfucker Trump, we'll probably be out of it ourselves.
The decay of this nation since the Reagan Administration has been unbelievable to watch.
I remember when America still had the potential to be a great nation.
 
Last edited:
ExpressLane said:
It David and Goliath . Spoiler The Big Guy lost.
Click to expand...

Finland is half the size of Sweden, and able to give the USSR a black eye twice during WWII. I would not bet against Sweden. You give me reasonable odds, and I would bet against Russia.
 
dukkha said:
Im of the opinion NATO doesn't even want peace to interfere with their proxy war -at least the more aggressive states like the USA

Not one damn NATO state has said anything about peace talks except maybe Turkey
Click to expand...

Putin started the war. He is Invader and aggressor. It's up to him to stand down. No Ukrainian troops are in Russia, nor did they invade Russia.


Putin made the biggest mistake of his life, and now Ukraine, NATO, and the EU are going to ensure Putin's Russia is economically and militarily weakened so they no longer pose a threat to their neighbors as long as Putin is in power.
 
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