Would Americans fight for their country like Ukrainians?

Stay and fight or leave the country?

  • Stay and fight

    Votes: 12 80.0%

  • Leave the country

    Votes: 1 6.7%

  • Surrender

    Votes: 1 6.7%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • Total voters
    15
Dutch Uncle said:
This really surprised me by the number of those who said they'd leave. Sad.

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article259392144.html
Would Americans fight for their country like Ukrainians? A recent poll is discouraging



https://poll.qu.edu/Poll-Release?releaseid=3838
As the world witnesses what is happening to Ukraine, Americans were asked what they would do if they were in the same position as Ukrainians are now: stay and fight or leave the country? A majority (55 percent) say they would stay and fight, while 38 percent say they would leave the country. Republicans say 68 - 25 percent and independents say 57 - 36 percent they would stay and fight, while Democrats say 52 - 40 percent they would leave the country.
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One thing for sure, the lawlessly hacked in orange turd tRump, his seditious repukes in Congress and elsewhere with the stench of their trash and un-American idiots who vote against their own interests have certainly been engaging in their own war efforts against their so-called country of America and anything else of a civilized nature on Earth. As the saying goes, elections and engaging in stupidity, mixed with insanity and hate and sedition etc. comes with consequences.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
there are over 21 million veterans in this country, why do you have such disrespect for our veterans?
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I am not talking about the ability to point and shoot a gun.

I can do that.

The question was how would the fortitude, ferocity, and tenacity of Americans compare to Ukranians in the same situation

My money is on the Ukranians. I am not a keyboard blowhard who feels compelled to compare myself favorably to Rambo and Seal Team 6.

Ukrainians still continue to fight ferociously to defend cities that have been reduced to smoking piles of ash. They are fighting for cities which don't even really exist anymore. They were outgunned from day one, but have never let the Russians capture a single major Ukranian city outside of Kherson, and even that city is being contested now.

At best, America as a nation is untested against defending the home and hearth against an overwhelming force of invaders.

Tenacity in the defense of home and hearth is bred into the DNA of East Slavs, who have a thousand year history of having to tenaciously face off against hordes of bloodthirsty invaders bent on pillage and annihilation.
 
Celticguy said:
what I mean is that some "news" is manufactured intended to give viewers the impression that something has occurred which benefits their narrative. AKA the fog of war.
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Are you saying the "MSM is lying"? An intelligence operation of some sort?

The "fog of war" is simply the lack of information on a fluid battlefront. Manufacturing an impression with an intelligence operation is like the British ruse of Operation Mincement; a corpse dressed in a British officer uniform and dumped off the coast of neutral Spain with fake classified papers.

This strike could very well be Ukrainian, but why would they deny it? It could be a Russian ruse, but who blows up their own oil depot? If the Russians wanted a ruse of Ukrainians attacking inside Russia, they'd just take prisoners, dress them up in Russian and Ukrainian uniforms then shoot them.

IMO, this is Russians saying "Fuck you" to Putin's war.

What do you believe is the intent here?
 
Cypress said:
I am not talking about the ability to point and shoot a gun.

I can do that.

The question was how would the fortitude, ferocity, and tenacity of Americans compare to Ukranians in the same situation

My money is on the Ukranians. I am not a keyboard blowhard who feels compelled to compare myself favorably to Rambo and Seal Team 6.

Ukrainians still continue to fight ferociously to defend cities that have been reduced to smoking piles of ash. They are fighting for cities which don't even really exist anymore. They were outgunned from day one, but have never let the Russians capture a single major Ukranian city outside of Kherson, and even that city is being contested now.

At best, America as a nation is untested against defending the home and hearth against an overwhelming force of invaders.

Tenacity in the defense of home and hearth is bred into the DNA of East Slavs, who have a thousand year history of having to tenaciously face off against hordes of bloodthirsty invaders bent on pillage and annihilation.
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The Ukrainian defense of their homeland against the Russians is admirable. I see no reason to believe that the US would end up being like France in WWII if invaded as you seem to claim.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
The Ukrainian defense of their homeland against the Russians is admirable. I see no reason to believe that the US would end up being like France in WWII if invaded as you seem to claim.
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We have the advantage of geography and size. Being protected by two oceans, and having a continent-sized land mass makes us virtually impregnable to invasion.

For an apples to apples comparison, I think if you put 44 million Americans in a small geographic area the size of Ukraine with no natural geographic defenses, and asked them to hold out against an invader who completely outgunned them, I have my doubts that the tenacity and esprit de corps would be equivalent to what we are currently seeing in Marupiel, Kharkiv, Kyiv.

Just my two cents
 
Cypress said:
We have the advantage of geography and size. Being protected by two oceans, and having a continent-sized land mass makes us virtually impregnable to invasion.

For an apples to apples comparison, I think if you put 44 million Americans in a small geographic area the size of Ukraine with no natural geographic defenses, and asked them to hold out against an invader who completely outgunned them, I have my doubts that the tenacity and esprit de corps would be equivalent to what we are currently seeing in Marupiel, Kharkiv, Kyiv.

Just my two cents
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Even the French had the French Resistance in WWII versus their own countrymen who were collaborators in Vichy France. I believe most human beings would fight for their homeland.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
This really surprised me by the number of those who said they'd leave. Sad.

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article259392144.html
Would Americans fight for their country like Ukrainians? A recent poll is discouraging



https://poll.qu.edu/Poll-Release?releaseid=3838
As the world witnesses what is happening to Ukraine, Americans were asked what they would do if they were in the same position as Ukrainians are now: stay and fight or leave the country? A majority (55 percent) say they would stay and fight, while 38 percent say they would leave the country. Republicans say 68 - 25 percent and independents say 57 - 36 percent they would stay and fight, while Democrats say 52 - 40 percent they would leave the country.
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Comparing this poll to Ukraine is completely pointless.

Ukrainian men between 18-60 MUST stay...by law.

https://theconversation.com/why-banning-men-from-leaving-ukraine-violates-their-human-rights-178411
 
Cypress said:
I am not talking about the ability to point and shoot a gun.

I can do that.

The question was how would the fortitude, ferocity, and tenacity of Americans compare to Ukranians in the same situation

My money is on the Ukranians. I am not a keyboard blowhard who feels compelled to compare myself favorably to Rambo and Seal Team 6.

Ukrainians still continue to fight ferociously to defend cities that have been reduced to smoking piles of ash. They are fighting for cities which don't even really exist anymore. They were outgunned from day one, but have never let the Russians capture a single major Ukranian city outside of Kherson, and even that city is being contested now.

At best, America as a nation is untested against defending the home and hearth against an overwhelming force of invaders.

Tenacity in the defense of home and hearth is bred into the DNA of East Slavs, who have a thousand year history of having to tenaciously face off against hordes of bloodthirsty invaders bent on pillage and annihilation.
Click to expand...

i'm not talking about citizens who can point and shoot, either. I'm talking about the MILLIONS of VETERANS who have the training and/or experience of combat..........why do you disrespect them so much?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
i'm not talking about citizens who can point and shoot, either. I'm talking about the MILLIONS of VETERANS who have the training and/or experience of combat..........why do you disrespect them so much?
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Indeed.

The veterans know what the fight would entail and the veterans would fight for home and hearth and our way of life.

I believe that most civilians would fight, as many did in the Revolutionary War.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Even the French had the French Resistance in WWII versus their own countrymen who were collaborators in Vichy France. I believe most human beings would fight for their homeland.
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I agree, but history shows us that the tenacity of defense varies from place to place. The French let the Nazis walk into Paris almost on a whim. The Russians accepted three years of starvation and of constant shelling rather than surrender Leningrad. The French resistance was admirable, but it really wasn't on the scale or tenacity of the Yugoslav or Soviet partisan guerillas.

I cut the French collapse in 1940 some slack though. They fought heroically in WW1, and I just think they didn't have the energy or esprit de corps to live through another bloodbath like that. The bloodbath in the trenches would sap the fortitude of a lot of people.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
i'm not talking about citizens who can point and shoot, either. I'm talking about the MILLIONS of VETERANS who have the training and/or experience of combat..........why do you disrespect them so much?
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The "millions of veterans" with actual combat experience largely included Vietnam vets who are all in their 70s and 80s now.
 
Cypress said:
I agree, but history shows us that the tenacity of defense varies from place to place. The French let the Nazis walk into Paris almost on a whim. The Russians accepted three years of starvation and of constant shelling rather than surrender Leningrad. The French resistance was admirable, but it really wasn't on the scale or tenacity of the Yugoslav or Soviet partisan guerillas.

I cut the French collapse in 1940 some slack though. They fought heroically in WW1, and I just think they didn't have the energy or esprit de corps to live through another bloodbath like that. The bloodbath in the trenches would sap the fortitude of a lot of people.
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The French put all of their money betting a Wall would protect them. When the Germans went around it, the shell of the French military collapsed.

It appears Ukraine accepted the more reasonable strategy of a layered defense. Regardless, the French still fought and the West did their best to supply and assist them.

While there are certainly cultural differences here, I'm speaking to the human thing of humans defending their homes.

Better, IMO, to understand the difference between why the Ukrainians are fighting so hard and why the Russian Army is fragging their own leaders and, possibly, shooting up their own oil depots.
 
Cypress said:
The "millions of veterans" with actual combat experience largely included Vietnam vets who are all in their 70s and 80s now.
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You are forgetting that many are extensively trained and can pass that training onto their neighbors.

Examples; How to take out a tank with only Molotov cocktail. If shooting up a convoy, which vehicles to hit first or, if you can only hit one or two, which one or two? How to set up an ambush. How to make booby traps. Military strategy and tactics.
 
Cypress said:
The "millions of veterans" with actual combat experience largely included Vietnam vets who are all in their 70s and 80s now.
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Wrong.

Past analyses by the group have estimated that about 3 million veterans served in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, either in direct combat deployments or support roles. The median age of the group now is just under 37 years old.Aug 18, 2021
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
This really surprised me by the number of those who said they'd leave. Sad.

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article259392144.html
Would Americans fight for their country like Ukrainians? A recent poll is discouraging



https://poll.qu.edu/Poll-Release?releaseid=3838
As the world witnesses what is happening to Ukraine, Americans were asked what they would do if they were in the same position as Ukrainians are now: stay and fight or leave the country? A majority (55 percent) say they would stay and fight, while 38 percent say they would leave the country. Republicans say 68 - 25 percent and independents say 57 - 36 percent they would stay and fight, while Democrats say 52 - 40 percent they would leave the country.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Tucker Carlson. Now, most young people have no faith in our country. Great job, Tucker. I hope ya think the money is worth it.

I do not.
 
Too many young Americans do not appreciate what they have. They take it all for granted. Too many Americans do, too. Very sad.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Because their husbands and parents work in the US. :)

FWIW, although I couldn't find a definition, my guess is that "Mltry Hshld" is "Military Household".

P29Kfg9.png
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No big surprise right-leaning Quinnipiac somehow arrives at results that show Republicans to be way more patriotic than Democrats. Gee, I wonder how that happened?
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,

No big surprise right-leaning Quinnipiac somehow arrives at results that show Republicans to be way more patriotic than Democrats. Gee, I wonder how that happened?
Click to expand...
Disagreed Quinnipiac is political or that the poll indicates who is more patriotic or not unless we are discussing gender and age.

Given a choice, would a mother, any mother anywhere, rather flee the war zone with her young children or would she be more likely to put a suicide vest on them and point them at the enemy?

Given a choice, would a man rather defend his home or run from it? If he owns it, I think he'd stay. If not, then he'd be more likely to relocate...although he might still fight.

DdQG8dTXcAEst0t.jpg
 
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