Biden green lights funds for nationwide electric vehicle charging network.

BartenderElite said:
There are ways to improve efficiencies that we haven't even imagined yet.
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No, there aren't. Every battery has the same basic layout: A cathode, anode, and electrolyte. The Cathode and anode are two dissimilar materials that have a difference in atomic potential as shown on the periodic table. It is impossible to get more than about 2 to 3 volts out of a single battery cell regardless of size because that's the largest difference in potential between any two elements that exist, again per the periodic table.
The electrolyte just allows the charge to transfer between the cathode and anode.

Likewise, thermocouples and Bernoulli / bimetal springs work on the same principle.

YOU CANNOT GET AROUND THE PERIODIC TABLE
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Both a Strawman and ad hominem logical fallacy. How the hell can the technology be made cheaper and less costly if we don’t invest in developing the technology. You’re clueless man.
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He really is. He seems to think that EVs are bad because poor people can't afford them. Have you ever heard something so absolutely inane?
Thank goodness Trump loves the poorly educated.

trump-supporters-are-stupid-3.jpg
 
Mott the Hoople said:
So all technological development should be prohibited because the very poor can’t afford it? That’s insane. No capitalist society responds to market demand to technological development and advancement cause the very poor can’t afford it.

Hell it wasn’t that long ago that the cost of a PC was only affordable to the upper middle class and it was mass demand from them that drove market demand, which increases investment, R&D, infrastructure investment and development that ultimately reduced cost where even the very poor could afford one.

Technological development never is based on what only the poor can afford. What an irrational argument.
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It's not only irrational. It's laughable. He actually thought he put forth a cogent, persuasive argument. What a fucking moron.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
No, there aren't. Every battery has the same basic layout: A cathode, anode, and electrolyte. The Cathode and anode are two dissimilar materials that have a difference in atomic potential as shown on the periodic table. It is impossible to get more than about 2 to 3 volts out of a single battery cell regardless of size because that's the largest difference in potential between any two elements that exist, again per the periodic table.
The electrolyte just allows the charge to transfer between the cathode and anode.

Likewise, thermocouples and Bernoulli / bimetal springs work on the same principle.

YOU CANNOT GET AROUND THE PERIODIC TABLE
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They were saying the same thing about computers.

Like I said: we haven't imagined it yet.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That’s a ridiculous comment as low cost e-cars are being manufactured and all the major automakers are investing heavily in building them and ecars all across the economic spectrum.

You’re letting your emotional and political bias from observing the facts on the ground. E-cars are growing in popularity, there is growing demand for them and the manufactures are investing heavily due to that demand. That is all that is required and yours and my political opinions are meaningless in light of that market demand.
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Po folks in urban areas not only cant afford electric cars, they cannot afford CARS much less a place to garage them.

if you want to put chargers in the suburbs then it makes slightly more sense except owners will have to charge at home so they are rarely if ever needed and still useless on long car trips.

And it all boils down to increasing printing money (and the inflation that this brings) making po folks pay for something they will never use.

It does not promote the general welfare, ergo its unconstitutional.

Its as bad as po folks paying to put my middle class niece in Georgia through college with the money they piss away on the Ga Lottery. Now my brother was happy to not spend the money but the po folks in GA got screwed over badly on this.
 
BartenderElite said:
They were saying the same thing about computers.

Like I said: we haven't imagined it yet.
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No, "they" weren't. Computers required the invention of new electronic circuits that previously weren't imagined. The physical components for those have existed for over half a century. The only thing that's changed is those components have gotten smaller.

At its most basic, a computer is a mass of binary flip flops that latch for a 1 or 0 output. This circuit was first invented in 1918. Then starting in the 50's these were improved. Various inventions that allowed reduction in size of the circuit has been what has driven compact computing power. Once that reaches a point where further reductions aren't possible due to quantum physics (a transistor of about 27 atoms in size) something totally new will be necessary or we're stuck with that as the minimum size of the circuit.

Some things have been pretty much worked out to a dead end. Batteries are one of those technologies for the most part. Researchers can fiddle with the chemicals and materials being used but the 2 to 3 volt per cell limit is something you cannot get around. You cannot produce AC power with a battery directly either. They will always be DC in nature.

The fuel cell, on the other hand, is a very new technology with room for great improvement. It's the future.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
No, "they" weren't. Computers required the invention of new electronic circuits that previously weren't imagined. The physical components for those have existed for over half a century. The only thing that's changed is those components have gotten smaller.

At its most basic, a computer is a mass of binary flip flops that latch for a 1 or 0 output. This circuit was first invented in 1918. Then starting in the 50's these were improved. Various inventions that allowed reduction in size of the circuit has been what has driven compact computing power. Once that reaches a point where further reductions aren't possible due to quantum physics (a transistor of about 27 atoms in size) something totally new will be necessary or we're stuck with that as the minimum size of the circuit.

Some things have been pretty much worked out to a dead end. Batteries are one of those technologies for the most part. Researchers can fiddle with the chemicals and materials being used but the 2 to 3 volt per cell limit is something you cannot get around. You cannot produce AC power with a battery directly either. They will always be DC in nature.

The fuel cell, on the other hand, is a very new technology with room for great improvement. It's the future.
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The only thing that history has shown us when it comes to innovation is that there are no rules.

It's a moot discussion. Green energy sources have not been "conclusively" ruled out as viable. They're just getting started, in the scheme of things. There will be innovation that no one can even comprehend yet.

Green is the future.
 
BartenderElite said:
The only thing that history has shown us when it comes to innovation is that there are no rules.

It's a moot discussion. Green energy sources have not been "conclusively" ruled out as viable. They're just getting started, in the scheme of things. There will be innovation that no one can even comprehend yet.

Green is the future.
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That's all a vacuous platitude. You cannot get around basic physics, chemistry, and other sciences.

Solar for example, is the same way. You cannot get more power out of a solar cell than the watt density of sunlight allows. The chemistry of solar PV cells is another well established science. You cannot worm your way around that. Solar doesn't work when the sun isn't out. That too can't be gotten around.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
That's all a vacuous platitude. You cannot get around basic physics, chemistry, and other sciences.

Solar for example, is the same way. You cannot get more power out of a solar cell than the watt density of sunlight allows. The chemistry of solar PV cells is another well established science. You cannot worm your way around that. Solar doesn't work when the sun isn't out. That too can't be gotten around.
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I'm not trying to get around science. You're talking about technology today. I'm talking about technology we haven't imagined yet.
 
BartenderElite said:
I'm not trying to get around science. You're talking about technology today. I'm talking about technology we haven't imagined yet.
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Okay, but that doesn't vie for what existing technologies we should be selecting for society to use. All the ones the Left favors are gross and costly failures on implementation.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Okay, but that doesn't vie for what existing technologies we should be selecting for society to use. All the ones the Left favors are gross and costly failures on implementation.
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I'm in no way suggesting that we waste a ton of money on it. But things like small investments for R & D and tax incentives are good, imo. Encourage more rapid development of options.
 
floridafan said:
Thats where the level 3 chargers come into play and as time goes on these battery chargers will be far better and more efficient.
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You can only charge a battery so fast... and not in 20 minutes either, let alone ever charging it as fast as filling a fuel tank takes (a few minutes).
 
gfm7175 said:
You can only charge a battery so fast... and not in 20 minutes either, let alone ever charging it as fast as filling a fuel tank takes (a few minutes).
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No one ever said that a battery, today, can be charged as quickly as a gas fill up, but technology will advance and it will surely happen soon. There is gonna be a day in the not too distant future when you wont be able to buy an auto powered by a gasoline engine. So as much as you fight change, your gonna lose.
 
floridafan said:
No one ever said that a battery, today, can be charged as quickly as a gas fill up, but technology will advance and it will surely happen soon. There is gonna be a day in the not too distant future when you wont be able to buy an auto powered by a gasoline engine. So as much as you fight change, your gonna lose.
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TA Is full of shit. I've charged my Tesla model Y in 20 minutes.
There must be a reason everybody wants to drive and buy an EV.
There must be a reason all car manufacturers are building EVs now.
There must be a reason There's an eight month wait to buy a new Tesla.
There must be a reason the owner of Tesla is the richest person in the world.

Can you imagine in 10+ years when most of the vehicles on the world's highways are electric? Smog will be a thing of the past.
Sorry MAGA. EVs are here to stay.
 
Joe Capitalist said:
TA Is full of shit. I've charged my Tesla model Y in 20 minutes.
There must be a reason everybody wants to drive and buy an EV.
There must be a reason all car manufacturers are building EVs now.
There must be a reason There's an eight month wait to buy a new Tesla.
There must be a reason the owner of Tesla is the richest person in the world.

Can you imagine in 10+ years when most of the vehicles on the world's highways are electric? Smog will be a thing of the past.
Sorry MAGA. EVs are here to stay.
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Electric vehicles represent a small portion of autos sold today, so not everyone wants electric.
To be successful:
1. Cost of vehicle must come down
2. Battery life needs to be extended
3. Charging stations must be fast and as available as your corner gas station
4. People who live in apartment buildings will not be able to charge their vehicles overnight
 
Mott the Hoople said:
No and I fail to see your point. Let them all throw their hats in the ring and the market will decide and no one is preventing them from doing so.
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The point is that they are all companies involved in the hydrogen economy in one way or another. As of the end of 2021 there were less than 150 hydrogen gas stations in the US. The market is not deciding, now is it? Big government is queering the pitch by backing EVs instead. People are unlikely to buy hydrogen powered cars if there's nowhere to refuel, that's hardly rocket science. As for the cars both Toyota and Honda produce models, Japan is way ahead of the US in that respect.
 
floridafan said:
Electric vehicles are our future until something better comes along. The gasoline powered engine will go the way of coal fired furnaces.
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tell the chinese, they are building coal fired generating plants as fast as they can. and the current technology makes them clean. Electric cars require electricity, not one of you libs can tell us where all that juice will come from.
 
Primavera said:
The point is that they are all companies involved in the hydrogen economy in one way or another. As of the end of 2021 there were less than 150 hydrogen gas stations in the US. The market is not deciding, now is it? Big government is queering the pitch by backing EVs instead. People are unlikely to buy hydrogen powered cars if there's nowhere to refuel, that's hardly rocket science. As for the cars both Toyota and Honda produce models, Japan is way ahead of the US in that respect.
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Inevitably the Chinese are ahead of the curve sadly, as they are with nuclear technology as well.

https://www.glpautogas.info/en/china-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-for-sale.html
 
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