losing dem majority in 2010

I absolutely think the intent is still relavant today. Much can be accomplished by a few well armed, determined individuals. In desparate times, who knows. I would hope it never came to that.

I don't know if I can really dispute that; maybe I've just become complacent because we really haven't needed this option in 200+ years, and I have faith in the electoral system of gov't, but I suppose that could break down.

Like I said before, I support gun ownership, but I have to say, I am really uncomfortable with the idea of machine guns or any kind of "assault weapon" (loaded term, I know) being generally available. That availability makes me feel less safe, not more; I just don't trust my fellow man that much.
 
I don't really disagree w/ too many of those quotes, and I support the 2nd amendment. I, like most Americans, also support reasonable gun controls.

That said, the intent of the 2nd amendment is pretty out-dated. The whole idea of the populace being able to form militias to rise up against the gov't if necessary was plausible in the days of the musket. But is anyone REALLY comfortable with the idea that the populace should have access to all of the weaponry of the current U.S. military?
The only "reasonable" gun control is that which outlaws possession by those who have already lost their constitutional protections through due process of law. (remember the 14th Amendment?) Those laws are already on the books, and basically ineffective, but none the less are reasonable.

As for the intent, it will ALWAYS be relevant. You may not feel any threat of a totalitarian government forming soon, but can you guarantee that will not happen 50 years from now, or 100? No, you cannot. Going to the preamble of the Constitution, which states the purpose for writing the constitution as a whole, one primary purpose was/is to "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity. The 2nd Amendment was added to ASSURE we will always have the ability to counter a despotic government, thus securing the blessings of liberty to our posterity - as in my grand children and their children, etc. That makes it relevant today because other than retaining power in the people including the power of force, if it becomes necessary there is no way to truly preserve our liberties.

As for your fear of full auto firearms in the hands of the people, that is a typical reaction of those brought up under the "guns are bad" bull shit propaganda. A SAW in the hands of a law abiding citizen is no more dangerous to you than an AR-15, or even an 03-A3. People are not more likely to go bonkers because they have a firearm, nor because the firearm has more capabilities.

When I was growing up, firearms were much more widely available, and it was far more common for households to have one or more firearms. Yet when I was growing up the incidence of random violence using firearms was practically unheard of. There was that shooting in Texas by a man with a brain tumor. Yet for some reason all liberals can focus on when an act of random violence is committed is that somehow our liberties as handed us by the founders is at fault. What a fucking load! When will you people recognize (and yes this includes those who "support the 2nd amendment, but with 'reasonable' gun control) that the whole gun control movement is nothing more than a politically expedient diversion? They blame firearms and want to write laws restricting them because they haven't the stones to address the real problems of runaway crime levels.
 
You're losing your clout:


The vaunted National Rifle Association and the rest of the gun lobby -- for years presumed deadly to any politician who dared to buck them -- were firing blanks in the recent election.

Lobby-promoted candidates generally fared poorly. Candidates who support firearms controls that most people consider sensible were not routed, not even where typically hysterical campaigns were run against them.

At least for this election cycle, the single-issue, guns-are-everything voter -- the source of the lobby's political intimidation -- turned out to be more pussycat than tiger.

Might the way finally lie clear for the political system to engage pragmatically with the nation's reckless trafficking in firearms and the violence with which, partly as a consequence, Americans have had to put up with as no other people must do?

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has parsed the election results. The NRA conducted major television ad campaigns against Barack Obama in 13 key states, including several with histories of falling for the lobby's tactics. Obama carried 11 of those states.

And in the 25 congressional elections in which the Democrats gained seats, the NRA had backed 20 of the losers.

The Brady Campaign's president said, "We know of no candidates at any level, in any race, who lost because they supported sensible guns laws."

You don't have to take the gun-control organization's word for it. Gun Owners of America, though in its usual overwrought language, agrees: "The new Congress has moved decidedly in an anti-gun direction and many pro-gun leaders were defeated."

("Anti-gun," you understand, meaning, for instance, barring concealed firearms from airports.)

The gunners' answer to gun violence is public shoot-outs.

Their lobby fights even the most obvious common sense controls in favor of pushing for enabling legislation that would encourage people to carry more firearms in more public places.

Yet polling has found for some time that majorities -- often including most gun owners -- support a five-day waiting period for handgun purchases, limits on the number of firearms that can be bought at any one time, outlawing assault-style weapons, closing the loophole that lets buyers at gun shows duck background checks.

One election does not make a trend, but it can be fairly suspected -- and certainly hoped -- that in this election we may have seen the first welcome if unintended fruit from the Supreme Court's ruling this year that the Second Amendment asserts a personal right to gun ownership.

Historically, the courts had read the amendment as a community right pegged to the maintenance of state militias. Most control advocates hated the court's about-face, but the ruling equally made it clear that familiar controls -- and thus presumably, by extension, comparably sensible ones -- are not barred.

The reinterpretation has robbed the NRA et al. of the slippery-slope argument that they have used to malign effect for years in a state of near-constant frenzy -- the nutty claim that any gun control would soon lead to federal goons kicking in your door and grabbing your guns. And Hitler coming in right after them. (And you thought he was dead!)

Maybe, just maybe, even the ever-gulled are catching on that with private ownership nailed down, we can talk like adults about how to manage that right with good sense.

Tom Teepen is a columnist for Cox Newspapers based in Atlanta; teepencolumn@earthlink.net.
 
its your fault, not mine, that you have no understanding of legal documents.

tell me, do you REALLY want 9 conservative justices interpreting the constitution the way THEY think it ought to be?

luckily, given the lifetime appointments and the realities of our political system, it is nearly impossible to get nine conservatives on the court at once. I have no problem in allowing the checks and balances within the constitution to work as they will. If, for example, McCain had won and during his term, replaced Stevens and Ginsburg with two conservatives, I would accept whatever changes a solid conservative majority on the SCOTUS would create. Those sorts of things come with citizenship.
 
luckily, given the lifetime appointments and the realities of our political system, it is nearly impossible to get nine conservatives on the court at once. I have no problem in allowing the checks and balances within the constitution to work as they will. If, for example, McCain had won and during his term, replaced Stevens and Ginsburg with two conservatives, I would accept whatever changes a solid conservative majority on the SCOTUS would create. Those sorts of things come with citizenship.

but that does NOT mean that we the people have to accept obvious court decisions which fly in the face of the constitution. Luckily for the courts, the legislatures rectified that horrendous Kelo decision that the liberals on the bench gave us.
 
luckily, given the lifetime appointments and the realities of our political system, it is nearly impossible to get nine conservatives on the court at once. I have no problem in allowing the checks and balances within the constitution to work as they will. If, for example, McCain had won and during his term, replaced Stevens and Ginsburg with two conservatives, I would accept whatever changes a solid conservative majority on the SCOTUS would create. Those sorts of things come with citizenship.
Luck has nothing to do with it. The design of the balance of powers was carefully thought out, and the results are a product of that design. It's when we screw with the checks and balances of power and/or ignore the limitations placed on the branches of government that we get ourselves in trouble.
 
but that does NOT mean that we the people have to accept obvious court decisions which fly in the face of the constitution. Luckily for the courts, the legislatures rectified that horrendous Kelo decision that the liberals on the bench gave us.

great case example of liberal ideology....taking rights from citizens and handing those rights to corporations or government
 
but that does NOT mean that we the people have to accept obvious court decisions which fly in the face of the constitution. Luckily for the courts, the legislatures rectified that horrendous Kelo decision that the liberals on the bench gave us.

and wasn't that just another example of checks and balances at work?
 
not really. what if it had been a decision that the legislature and executive branches liked and agreed with. what would be the last check/balance?


are you asking what would happen if the executive and the legislative AND the judicial branch ALL agreed with something? And the people overwhelmingly disagreed with it?

The LAST check would, of course, be the ballot box to replace those members of the executive/legislative branches that were not listening to the people.
 
Didn't most gunlovers vote for McSame anyway?

So obviously they don't have the votes.
 
I truly believe that if they try to push for it in reality, it will hurt their chances in 2010 and beyond.

I know more Ds who are 2nd Amendment nuts than I do Rs who are Gun Registration and Revocation nuts.

You don't have to be "insane" to understand that this is just another essential freedom that they mean for us to give up for security.

If dems are voted out of office over an issue as insipid and stupid as this then we deserve to be a third world country.
 
That wasn't really the point. I think most people feel free to buy a car in America, despite registration.

Honestly, I don't get it; I don't get how registering a gun is some sort of infringement on gun rights.

i think the courts agree with you. for me, it is an intrusion into a right that the constitution secured. if the founders wanted guns registered, they could have made that clear. they did not. the 2nd amendment preserved in writing our right to keep and bear arms and that right shall not be infringed. IMHO, registration is intrustion that infringes upon the 2nd as registration was not required when the 2nd was written. i think my opinion is in the minority and even in Heller scotus, in dicta, indicated that registration might not be an intrusion.
 
i think the courts agree with you. for me, it is an intrusion into a right that the constitution secured. if the founders wanted guns registered, they could have made that clear. they did not. the 2nd amendment preserved in writing our right to keep and bear arms and that right shall not be infringed. IMHO, registration is intrustion that infringes upon the 2nd as registration was not required when the 2nd was written. i think my opinion is in the minority and even in Heller scotus, in dicta, indicated that registration might not be an intrusion.
The SCOTUS Ruled that the requirement of registration on guns violated the 5th for those who had violations that would make it so they couldn't have guns. While their owning the guns is still illegal, they have a 5th Amendment right not to incriminate themselves.
 
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