Rep. Abigail Spanberger (VA-D) - Never use the words 'socialist' or 'socialism'

[Cinnabar]

OK...there's a whole lot in there. I thought you were upset with Biden for saying he'd sign M4A? Why else would you say that you didn't vote for him, as opposed to voting against trump?

Nobody who wants M4 understands it. If you were honest, and told people that their income taxes would go up another 20%, they might rethink it. Of course, most people who want it don't pay much in taxes.

I'm only playing devil's advocate here, so don't get agitated. If we cut back on our bloated military budget, we could afford M4.

BUT...millions of Americans get 'free' healthcare from their employers. At least they think they do. You aren't going to wrestle that from them without a fight. All of Bernie's savings in his proposal came from one thing...negotiated drug prices. All of it. Why do you need M4 to achieve that? What's wrong with letting people keep private insurance, and giving the for profit companies actual competition with low cost insurance via a public option? At least as a first step. If ACA were EVER allowed to exist as designed, we'd have much lower costs by now. But it wasn't. In fact, last year the SC awarded insurance companies millions of dollars that they were owed when the House illegally defunded the risk corridors.


One thing I never realized before an in depth analysis, is that all of Medicare's billing infrastructure is taken care of by private insurers. That's why they can boast a very low overhead.

The bottom line is that the establishment Dems, which of course includes Joe Biden, are no longer a party which exists to represent the people. They throw a few crumbs and subsidies now and again but as Senator Nina Turner stated...there are two dragons to slay...the first being Trump and the next is Neo-Liberalism. Fact...EVERY progressive candidate retained their Congressional seat while the so-called moderates all lost theirs. Fact...Every Progressive candidate supported Med4All and none of the moderates did. The republicans would never again win any election if the Dems had not abandoned their roots and remained a party of the working people.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I'm denying that 73 million voted for him in the Midwest. Your claim was that I said every trump voter is stupid. This thread is replete with discussion about Republican voters.

You said that everyone votes straight ticket. Not this time. Biden won in states that rejected House/Senate Dems. How does that happen with straight ticket voting?

LOL...if this were a different board, you would claim 'because of fraud!!!!!'

73M+ is total voters. At least 232 electoral votes worth.

Just a guess but Independents might vote for Biden then vote for the incumbent or for the challenger based on party. Note that the margin of Independents voting for someone other than Biden or Trump was much less this election than the last. Did they disappear or did they mostly vote for Biden/against Trump then voted differently in other elections.

Independents votes for Third candidates:
2016 5.7%
2020 1.7%

 

[Althea]

Do you really think Democrats can muster even more voters in 2022 than in 2020? Complacency is on both sides.

Trump won't ever give a shit about anything except himself. He'll use Trump TV to bitch, whine and moan about the dastardly Democrats stealing the election. Only fucking morons will believe him.

I hope so. It'll distract them from voting. Dems don't need to muster more voters. They just have to care more. I believe there are once again more Rep. Senate seats up for grabs again, but I'm not sure. If Dems made gains this time, and got some legislation passed, I think they'd be more complacent.

A lot will depend upon what comes before this Supreme Court between now/then.

 

[Althea]

73M+ is total voters. At least 232 electoral votes worth.

Just a guess but Independents might vote for Biden then vote for the incumbent or for the challenger based on party. Note that the margin of Independents voting for someone other than Biden or Trump was much less this election than the last. Did they disappear or did they mostly vote for Biden/against Trump then voted differently in other elections.

No third party made for an interesting election. We're going to have to wait to see the data re. Indies. A lot voted for Biden, but I'm not sure about down ballot.

 

[Althea]

The bottom line is that the establishment Dems, which of course includes Joe Biden, are no longer a party which exists to represent the people. They throw a few crumbs and subsidies now and again but as Senator Nina Turner stated...there are two dragons to slay...the first being Trump and the next is Neo-Liberalism. Fact...EVERY progressive candidate retained their Congressional seat while the so-called moderates all lost theirs. Fact...Every Progressive candidate supported Med4All and none of the moderates did. The republicans would never again win any election if the Dems had not abandoned their roots and remained a party of the working people.

Disagree. House seats are very different than Senate seats. The former is extremely localized, where the latter is across the entire state.

AOC will stay in her seat as long as she wants. She will NEVER win a Senate seat in NY. Because she can't win the primary.

You might be misreading data for this reason. The answer to every question lies in compromise. The Progs are there to drag Centrists toward the left, but not off the cliff.

Defund the cops? Really? Are you serious?

 

[Althea]

The disturbing thing is that Biden already said he would veto Med4All if it came across his desk so how different is that from his GOP counterparts? This is one of the reasons right here of why I only voted for Biden just to get rid of Trump. We have a huge problem in the USA.

Sorry. Just re read this. I thought you originally said 'sign' M4.

Like Obama, what he has to say during a tough campaign, and what he would do as POTUS are two different things. Obama promised to raise taxes on the wealthy. In the end, he caved, but got gay marriage for a cool $4 billion.

I don't see Biden vetoing M4, but I don't see it ever getting to his desk.

 

[Althea]

Much respect for you sister, but if centrists keep attacking the actual liberal base, we’ll all be watching another 4 years of republican control anyway. Centrists believe that pushing for a livable wage is a far left position. Should the real left kiss the centrist ring before crafting their own agenda? This is a conversation that should be had within the party. How much longer do you think progressives should wait for centrists to figure out that there is no Democratic Party without the energized participation of th left?

I don't see any mainstream Dems against a $15 minimum wage? Which IMO isn't a livable wage anyway.

The Prog agenda, as I've already stated, is supposed to put weight on Centrists. Not drag them off the cliff. Defunding the police is never going to happen, even though Feds don't have that power. It's sheer stupidity to even use that catch phrase in an election year.

See above for my opinion regarding House seats vs. Senate seats. You see much more diversity in the House due to the diversity in statewide districts. They can get away with screeching sheer stupidity re. police. That makes it impossible for their fellow party members to run a campaign.

Why not intelligently discuss the problems with community policing the way Obama's task force did, instead of sounding stupid for stupidity's sake?

They're young. We need a lot more youth in Washington.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I hope so. It'll distract them from voting. Dems don't need to muster more voters. They just have to care more. I believe there are once again more Rep. Senate seats up for grabs again, but I'm not sure. If Dems made gains this time, and got some legislation passed, I think they'd be more complacent.

A lot will depend upon what comes before this Supreme Court between now/then.

The Republicans need to figure out how to pull their heads out of their asses or they'll get a shellacking in 2024.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No third party made for an interesting election. We're going to have to wait to see the data re. Indies. A lot voted for Biden, but I'm not sure about down ballot.

I'm part of the 1.7% (and the 5.7% in 2016), but note that greater numbers of Independents voting for Biden would account for the differences in both the percentages and the results. Independent votes also explain why someone would vote for a Republican rep and Biden for President.

 

[Bubba]

Your words seem to indicate so, but I can't tell by a single post. How do you feel about abortion? Guns? Gay marriage? Religion in government? Foreign relations? Election 2020?

What does it matter, Dutch Uncle?? If I hold different opinions than you on those topics, does that make me an extremist??

Yeah, in your world, I suspect it does. So why don't we just accept that I measure up to your definition of "Extremist" and let it go at that??

 

[Dutch Uncle]

What does it matter, Dutch Uncle?? If I hold different opinions than you on those topics, does that make me an extremist??

Yeah, in your world, I suspect it does. So why don't we just accept that I measure up to your definition of "Extremist" and let it go at that??

You don't have to post answers.

 

[Bubba]

You don't have to post answers.

Thank you for giving me permission.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Thank you for giving me permission.

You are most welcome.

 

[dukkha]

What does it matter, Dutch Uncle?? If I hold different opinions than you on those topics, does that make me an extremist??

Yeah, in your world, I suspect it does. So why don't we just accept that I measure up to your definition of "Extremist" and let it go at that??

Carp is the most judgemental poster I've seen.
He's not to slick on the facts either, but he's good at pointing at others and calling faults

 

[Jack]

IMO, it's not about Trump; it's about the "D" and the "R" after the candidate's names. Democrats and Trumpeteers alike think the other side are idiots and that's as deep as they want to dive into it. Sad. Can't fix problems if most people don't give a shit about solving them.

I'm good with that ... when a Mitt Romney or a John McCain are the 'R's. Donald Trump is in a completely different universe.
I can accept Trump getting elected the first time around, he had a good pitch. But the SECOND time! How is this thing EVEN CLOSE!!!
I guess I'm seeking 'Closure'. Even now, Trump is acting like a total Embarrassment. A Real Blotch on American tradition of the Graceful Loser. He's more the Tinhorn Dictator in a Shithole Nation being evicted from the Palace and attempting a Coup. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[Jack]

I didn't believe in the polling, but I never do. Never have. You can ask Anatta next time you see him. I expected a better result in the Senate, but when the protests continued to turn into riots, and the Progs. were sounding off about the police, I knew it was going to be bad.

When early voting was so strong, I knew that both sides were voting. I was pleasantly surprised by Arizona/Georgia, but this was clearly an anti trump statement. We're screwed if we don't get Georgia Senate seats.

The Right was working overtime with propaganda. I think the claim of stacking the Supreme Court (Ironic as that's exactly what McConnell did), defunding police, and general Socialism claims cost us the Senate and House seats.

I'm hoping that Abrams can drag voters out in Ga. in January. It's going to come down to which party feels that their future depends on those seats. I don't have much faith in voters.

Wow. I can't disagree with ANYTHING you've said.
I always thought Biden (or anybody NOT Trump) was a shoe-in and was more interested in the Senate races in Colorado, Arizona, Maine, Iowa, and N. Carolina.
This thing coming down to 2 Senate seats in GEORGIA , with 2 sitting Republican Senators, in Republican controlled Georgia ... is, mmmmmm, daunting.

 

[Cinnabar]

Yeah. It was kinda' personal for me, I expected a Blue Wave, and when it was close, I was STUNNED. I couldn't believe 70 million voted for this guy. I'm still trying to process this.

How could there be a blue wave when the establishment Dems ran on we are not Trump as opposed to policy? The only ones who kept their seats and even won some new ones were Progressives who actually had policy platforms...



https://truthout.org/articles/this-election-proved-that-medicare-for-all-is-a-winning-demand/

The Dems that lost were all moderates or blue dogs.

 

[Jack]

How could there be a blue wave when the establishment Dems ran on we are not Trump as opposed to policy? The only ones who kept their seats and even won some new ones were Progressives who actually had policy platforms...

View attachment 17973

https://truthout.org/articles/this-election-proved-that-medicare-for-all-is-a-winning-demand/

The Dems that lost were all moderates or blue dogs.

Trump. Trump is so unqualified, ignorant, narcissistic, and undignified that most people (or so I thought) would vote for 'Anybody Not Trump'.
Along with anybody associated with Trump.

Apparently, I was wrong. Your Article on 'Individual Fusion', which I interpret loosely as 'Groupies/I Just like The Guy' makes sense and doesn't have anything to do with 'Policies'.

Britain has for 72 years the National Health Service. Like our Public School System, it is Public (Government) owned Hospitals, Public (Government) paid Doctors and Nurses, and 'Free' to everybody.
Yes. Obviously no one can figure out how Britain can pay for this, and secondly, they must be Communist.
NHS would be the 'Progressive Agenda'. 'BidenCare' or 'Med4All' are both 'bones' being pitched to the American electorate as a 'starting point'. So, either way, I'm good with getting the ball rolling on this.

Point: When Corporate America realizes they can eliminate 'Health Insurance' from their 'Benefits Package to Workers', they will rush to unload this onto the Individual or Government.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I'm good with that ... when a Mitt Romney or a John McCain are the 'R's. Donald Trump is in a completely different universe.
I can accept Trump getting elected the first time around, he had a good pitch. But the SECOND time! How is this thing EVEN CLOSE!!!
I guess I'm seeking 'Closure'. Even now, Trump is acting like a total Embarrassment. A Real Blotch on American tradition of the Graceful Loser. He's more the Tinhorn Dictator in a Shithole Nation being evicted from the Palace and attempting a Coup. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Trump is not a Republican. Like Hillary, as soon as he's out, he'll be all the way out and stamped Persona Non Grata.

Let's hope Trump is remembered as the bottom of the barrel, the point where Ds and Rs started working together again for the best interests of the nation, not just themselves or their party.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

How could there be a blue wave when the establishment Dems ran on we are not Trump as opposed to policy? The only ones who kept their seats and even won some new ones were Progressives who actually had policy platforms...

View attachment 17973

https://truthout.org/articles/this-election-proved-that-medicare-for-all-is-a-winning-demand/

The Dems that lost were all moderates or blue dogs.

So, in the Democratic Civil War, you are predicting the far Left will win and push the Democratic party as far Left as the Republicans are far Right?