It requires bravery and acceptance of sacrafice to live free.
ACLU vs. alQaeda!
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
- Start date
It requires bravery and acceptance of sacrafice to live free.
C
Cancel3
Guest
Well, lets see.....
On the one hand we have a respected journalist and well known magazine reporting one thing (which you scoff at).
And on the otherhand you post "Oh it is widely known how the information was obtained.".
Which one is the more credible source of information?
It was in Jane Mayer's book. Further reporting has been done about this case, and several other horror shows, and they all had the same conclusion; it didn't work. In some cases, it sent the agents on wild goose chases. Many cases were just heart-breaking. We've tortured people who knew nothing, because they weren't involved in anything, and they "confessed" to things that never existed.
Even if you were right and torture worked, it would still be wrong. What makes it even more horrible is that it doesnt' work. And people like you don't care. You just want someone tortured. You're sick.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
And I don't consider what you consider, you have proven yourself to be a retard incapable of cognitive thought.... you better hope some relative doesn't decide to pull your feeding tube drool boy.
You're right, when it comes to how the French view America, I don't care much about that, I had rather save innocent American lives. To me, that is the only principle that matters in a war, and I don't really look at this as anything other than a war.
And let's be clear about the level terrorists operate on, they believe it is acceptable, indeed heroic, to blow up and maim innocent men, women, and children, to make a political statement. Not because they are fighting a war and people sometimes get in the way, they target the innocent in order to elicit fear from the masses. I think we have a long fucking way to go before we "slide" to their level.
C
Cancel3
Guest
You are ABSOLUTELY wrong Dixie.
This is not about shades of gray. This is about what is right and what is wrong. When you torture innocent people trying to get information, you have crossed the line.
Its not about how far over the line you go. Its about crossing it at all.
C
Cancel3
Guest
Dixie is either trying to use the same fear-mongering techniques his favorite politicians used, or he is willing to sacrifice his freedoms for the sense of security and safety he craves.
Neither is worthy of following.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Jane Mayer?? Is she some kind of intelligence expert? Or is she the typical garden variety pinhead like you, who wants to keep saying "torture" when that has never been done?
Since you are into books, you should read Col. Gordon Cucullu's book... Inside Gitmo: The True Story Behind the Myths of Guantanamo Bay
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Gitmo-Story-Behind-Guantanamo/dp/006176230X/rustyhumphries-20/ref=nosim"]Amazon.com: Inside Gitmo: The True Story Behind the Myths of Guantanamo Bay: Gordon Cucullu: Books[/ame]
The Colonel seems to disagree with Sweet Jane.
It's so much fun; whenever we talk about world standing, or our relationship with a range of allies & other countries, it's instantly distilled down to "France."
Dixie...do you know how the biggest plot of the past 7 years was foiled? Remember the one, where they were going to blow up 8 TransAtlantic planes w/ liquid explosive, and it got shampoo banned from carry-ons? That was foiled because of strong communication between allies in Europe, who utilized info garnered because they had developed even stronger relationships with their local Muslim communities.
You would characterize this as "singing Kum-ba-yah" with French terrorist lovers, but it saved thousands of lives. And they didn't have to torture anyone.
Dixie...do you know how the biggest plot of the past 7 years was foiled? Remember the one, where they were going to blow up 8 TransAtlantic planes w/ liquid explosive, and it got shampoo banned from carry-ons? That was foiled because of strong communication between allies in Europe, who utilized info garnered because they had developed even stronger relationships with their local Muslim communities.
You would characterize this as "singing Kum-ba-yah" with French terrorist lovers, but it saved thousands of lives. And they didn't have to torture anyone.
"And by the way Jarod i'm still waiting for you to cross my palm with mother-fucking silver."
?????
FDR's quote is particularly relevant to Dixie today...
"We have nuthing to fear, but fear itself."
I have never seen a more blatent example of what he was talking about as Dixie's desire to torture POW's.
And remember FDR said that in the face of Natzi agression.
"We have nuthing to fear, but fear itself."
I have never seen a more blatent example of what he was talking about as Dixie's desire to torture POW's.
And remember FDR said that in the face of Natzi agression.
Dixie and his fellow conservatives are hoping we get attacked again, now that Obama is president, he wants the score evened up.
We got hit during his presidents watch... Now he cant wait for us to get hit during Obama's watch.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
First of all, I don't believe we have ever "tortured" anyone. Of course, from a left-wing ACLU perspective, raising your voice might be considered "torture" and I can't really dispute ignorant opinion, can I?
Let's be clear, nothing I say here makes one bit of difference, I am not going to change your minds, and the US isn't going to suddenly follow my advice. Our new president has made his decision, and you win! You get what you've been wanting! You don't have to hoot me down, you are going to have precisely the kind of treatment for the detainee's you are comfortable with, and there's not a damn thing I can do about it!
I am just here to tell you, and I will continue to be here telling you, that we are going to be attacked by terrorists bent on destroying us. That's not me trying to change your mind about something, don't get all alarmed and think you have to lash out, you're going to get exactly what you want! We will get attacked, there will be dead Americans, that is going to happen, mark my words. I'm sure you have your angles all figured out, how you can blame the deaths on Bush policies, how you can parlay that into some philosophical debate on why we should be sucking terrorist ass and trying to buddy up with them, to make them like us more, and how we need to just abandon this silly notion of fighting against radical Islam, it's just not worth the cost... I know those days are coming as soon as the death toll starts to mount. I expect it! I just wonder how many of you sheep are going to be willing to sacrifice your decadent liberal lifestyles and kneel down on your prayer rugs, when they eventually become your masters. My guess is, some of you will, but some of you will be too stubborn, and end up losing your heads... so to speak.
Oh well... nothing I can do about it! No need to worry about it! Terror attacks are coming boys and girls, and they are coming with a vengeance, that you can count on. When it all starts to go down, just remember that some guy on the internet said it was going to happen, and you didn't believe it.
C
Cancel3
Guest
Ok Dixie, you don't like Jane Mayer?
How about CIA Inspector General John Helgerwon?
"The techniques are controversial among experienced intelligence agency and military interrogators. Many feel that a confession obtained this way is an unreliable tool. Two experienced officers have told ABC that there is little to be gained by these techniques that could not be more effectively gained by a methodical, careful, psychologically based interrogation. According to a classified report prepared by the CIA Inspector General John Helgerwon and issued in 2004, the techniques "appeared to constitute cruel, and degrading treatment under the (Geneva) convention," the New York Times reported on Nov. 9, 2005. "
Or how about:
"Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer and a deputy director of the State Department's office of counterterrorism, recently wrote in the Los Angeles Times, "What real CIA field officers know firsthand is that it is better to build a relationship of trust … than to extract quick confessions through tactics such as those used by the Nazis and the Soviets." "
Or an even better reason for NOT using such harsh techniques:
"However, ABC News was told that at least three CIA officers declined to be trained in the techniques before a cadre of 14 were selected to use them on a dozen top al Qaeda suspects in order to obtain critical information. In at least one instance, ABC News was told that the techniques led to questionable information aimed at pleasing the interrogators and that this information had a significant impact on U.S. actions in Iraq.
According to CIA sources, Ibn al Shaykh al Libbi, after two weeks of enhanced interrogation, made statements that were designed to tell the interrogators what they wanted to hear. Sources say Al Libbi had been subjected to each of the progressively harsher techniques in turn and finally broke after being water boarded and then left to stand naked in his cold cell overnight where he was doused with cold water at regular intervals.
His statements became part of the basis for the Bush administration claims that Iraq trained al Qaeda members to use biochemical weapons. Sources tell ABC that it was later established that al Libbi had no knowledge of such training or weapons and fabricated the statements because he was terrified of further harsh treatment. "
First of all, you don't know what you are talking about and likely haven't read the book since it has been on sale for a grand total of one day.
In fact, I know you haven't read the book because if you had read the book you would know that Cucullu's defense of GITMO is not that we torture people there and that it works, but that we don't torture people there and it works.
You're a dumbass.
C
Cancel3
Guest
So it all hinges on "I don't believe we have ever "tortured" anyone", and you call us ignorant?
lmao
Dixie, you are making judgement calls based on seriously one-sided info. Anything that disagrees with your position you dismiss.
And it is entirely possible that we WILL be attacked again. And I am sure you are looking forward to it, so you can gloat about finally being right about something.
You make waterboarding sound so innocent. But you neglect to point out that the CIA operatives who underwent waterboarding caved in in an average of 14 seconds. And that was people who KNEW they would not actually be harmed or killed. The prisoners we used it on had no such knowledge.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Oh, I am not "hoping" for it, I am guaranteeing it will happen! I PROMISE! How much clearer can I make that? There is no "hope" for anything, except that I hope I can stay alive and keep my family alive. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, we are going to be attacked again, it's coming big boy!
Now, you hear your brother over there, yammering some idiocy about FDR and "fear" as if I am the one who is afraid. But the truth of the matter is, and I think this is the case with the left in general, you are all chicken shit of alQaeda and radical Islam! That is what is fueling this consistent position against Bush's policies toward terrorism, fighting the war on terror, or effectively gathering intelligence. It scares the ever-loving bejesus out of you, and the only way you know to respond is to act like you aren't scared a bit, and you're so fucking brave you are willing to abandon any kind of real resistance to it. You are the dweeb geek with a pocket protector who routinely gets his ass whooped by the jocks, trying to convince everyone, including yourself, that you don't mind it, you aren't going to do anything about it, and you'll just keep taking whatever they dish out, it's not worth you making a stand to stop it. You think people view you as some sort of courageous person who is fearless under pressure, but you are pissing in your pants at the mention of alQaeda.
I don't like your chances Dixie. The list of high-value targets in Alabama is legendary.
You poor bastard.
This is so funny, especally when you read the first few posts Dixie made in this thread.
Dixie is so afraid of Al Queda, he is willing to violate the constitution of the United States and throw away all that makes America Sacred to ensure a little freedom for himself and his family.
I can almost see the glint in his eyes as he talks of the comming terrorist threat!