If the Senate allows a fair trial...

Dems' own witness says Trump not truly impeached unless articles go to Senate

Dems' own witness says Trump not truly impeached unless articles go to Senate
Brooke Singman
By Brooke Singman | Fox News

"Congress leaves for Christmas break without sending articles of impeachment to the Senate

Consider it a twist on the old question about a tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it: If the House adopts articles of impeachment but never sends them to the Senate, is a president truly impeached?

A Harvard law professor, who also served as a Democrat-called impeachment witness, answered with a resounding “no” in a column that speaks to the deep dilemma House Speaker Nancy Pelosi faces as she sits on two articles of impeachment against President Trump.

MCCONNELL: 'IMPASSE' OVER TRUMP IMPEACHMENT TRIAL, AS DEMS DEPART FROM PRECEDENT

Pelosi, D-Calif., is apparently using the delay as leverage to extract favorable terms for a Senate trial. But Noah Feldman wrote for Bloomberg that an “indefinite delay” would pose a “serious problem”—as impeachment only technically happens when the articles are transmitted to the Senate.

“Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial,” Feldman wrote.

“If the House does not communicate its impeachment to the Senate, it hasn’t actually impeached the president,” he continued. “If the articles are not transmitted, Trump could legitimately say he wasn’t truly impeached at all.”

Pelosi signaled late Wednesday after the House passed articles of impeachment—on abuse of power and obstruction of Congress—that she wanted reassurances that the Senate would hold a fair trial, likely involving certain Democrat-sought witnesses, before sending over the articles.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., on the floor Thursday seemed baffled at Pelosi’s move to withhold the articles, arguing that the House speaker doesn’t have the leverage she thinks she does.

“Some House Democrats imply they are withholding the articles for some kind of leverage,” McConnell said. “I admit, I’m not sure what leverage there is in refraining from sending us something we do not want. Alas, if they can figure that out, they can explain.”

He added: “Following weeks of pronouncements about the urgency of the situation, urgent situation, the prosecutors appear to have developed cold feet. Democrat prosecution seems to have gotten cold feet and be unsure about whether they want to proceed to the trial. Like I said, a very unusual spectacle, and in my view, certainly not one that reflects well on the House.”
foxnews.com
 
This is the salient part from the Democrat's own expert witness, the Constitutional Scholar from Harvard:

“Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial,” Feldman wrote
 
Frank Apisa said:
Why would that be?

Trump obviously attempted to extort President Zelensky...and that rises to the level of an impeachable offense. Plus...he DID attempt to thwart the Houses investigation of him.
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We'll see if the Senate concurs. Well, assuming Princess sends. Consensus suggests not.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Why would that be?

Trump obviously attempted to extort President Zelensky...and that rises to the level of an impeachable offense. Plus...he DID attempt to thwart the Houses investigation of him.
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No, Trump was deprived of the right to have the courts adjudicate the Executive vs legislative issue with subpoenas lol.

That the obstruction article is an absolute loser is one of the reasons Pelosi chickened out. You also speak of ‘extortion’ as though it were established fact—when it is absolutely not a fact that Trump extorted Zelensky.

Zelensky is the alleged victim and he denies it.

And this exercise in absurdity was foisted upon the country by a party who insisted ‘they must move fast’ became the president is a clear and present danger to the next election and democracy. And what do they do? They slam the brakes on the very process they just got done insisting needed to be done quickly.

Divorce yourself from this madness, Frank.
 
Earl said:
"If the House does not communicate its impeachment to the Senate, it hasn’t actually impeached the president. If the articles are not transmitted, Trump could legitimately say that he wasn’t truly impeached at all.

That’s because “impeachment” under the Constitution means the House sending its approved articles of to the Senate, with House managers standing up in the Senate and saying the president is impeached.

As for the headlines we saw after the House vote saying, “TRUMP IMPEACHED,” those are a media shorthand, not a technically correct legal statement. So far, the House has voted to impeach (future tense) Trump. He isn’t impeached (past tense) until the articles go to the Senate and the House members deliver the message."
bloomberg.com
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"Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe wrote on Twitter that he disagreed with Feldman's analysis, saying that "under Art. I, Sec. 2, Clause 5, he was impeached on Dec 18, 2019. He will forever remain impeached. Period." That portion of the Constitution says that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-don...icles-of-impeachment-not-delivered-to-senate/
 
christiefan915 said:
"Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe wrote on Twitter that he disagreed with Feldman's analysis, saying that "under Art. I, Sec. 2, Clause 5, he was impeached on Dec 18, 2019. He will forever remain impeached. Period." That portion of the Constitution says that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-don...icles-of-impeachment-not-delivered-to-senate/
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Laurence Tribe..............LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Impeach Trump for tweets guy. There is reason no one takes Harvard or Democrats seriously anymore.
 
Into the Night said:
They are not finished. The articles of impeachment never reached the Senate.

The Senate is not yet received them.

Fine, but it's meaningless until the articles of impeachment are delivered to the Senate.

That they will, if and only if the receive the articles of impeachment to consider.
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"The United States Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment" (Article I, section 2) and that "the Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments…[but] no person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present" (Article I, section 3). The president, vice president, and all civil officers of the United States are subject to impeachment."

Read the bolded until it sinks in. The Constitution does not say that the House and Senate have the power of impeachment. The House impeaches, the Senate tries.
 
Earl said:
This is the salient part from the Democrat's own expert witness, the Constitutional Scholar from Harvard:

“Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial,” Feldman wrote
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:thumbsup:
 
Frank Apisa said:
Thank you for all that, Stretch.

BUT...strictly speaking, the president is impeached when the articles of impeachment are agreed to in the House.

Trump has been IMPEACHED.

At some point, the Speaker will deliver the articles of impeachment to the Senate and a trial 9(of some sort) will occur.

But make no mistake about it...the House has already impeached the president.
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Even the Senate website doesn't say what these people are trying to claim. Not a word about "no impeachment until articles are delivered to them." This is a pretty desperate denial of the facts by trump supporters.

The Senate's Impeachment Role

The United States Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment" (Article I, section 2) and that "the Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments…[but] no person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present" (Article I, section 3). The president, vice president, and all civil officers of the United States are subject to impeachment...

The concept of impeachment originated in England and was adopted by many of the American colonial governments and state constitutions. As adopted by the framers, this congressional power is a fundamental component of the constitutional system of “checks and balances.” Through the impeachment process, Congress charges and then tries an official of the federal government for “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” The definition of “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” was not specified in the Constitution and has long been subject to debate.

In impeachment proceedings, the House of Representatives charges an official of the federal government by approving, by majority vote, articles of impeachment. A committee of representatives, called “managers,” acts as prosecutors before the Senate. The Senate sits as a High Court of Impeachment in which senators consider evidence, hear witnesses, and vote to acquit or convict the impeached official. In the case of presidential impeachment trials, the chief justice of the United States presides. The Constitution requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate to convict, and the penalty for an impeached official upon conviction is removal from office. In some cases, the Senate has also disqualified such officials from holding public offices in the future. There is no appeal.

Since 1789, about half of Senate impeachment trials have resulted in conviction and removal from office.

https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Senate_Impeachment_Role.htm#1
 
christiefan915 said:
Even the Senate website doesn't say what these people are trying to claim. Not a word about "no impeachment until articles are delivered to them." This is a pretty desperate denial of the facts by trump supporters.

The Senate's Impeachment Role

The United States Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment" (Article I, section 2) and that "the Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments…[but] no person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present" (Article I, section 3). The president, vice president, and all civil officers of the United States are subject to impeachment...

The concept of impeachment originated in England and was adopted by many of the American colonial governments and state constitutions. As adopted by the framers, this congressional power is a fundamental component of the constitutional system of “checks and balances.” Through the impeachment process, Congress charges and then tries an official of the federal government for “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” The definition of “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” was not specified in the Constitution and has long been subject to debate.

In impeachment proceedings, the House of Representatives charges an official of the federal government by approving, by majority vote, articles of impeachment. A committee of representatives, called “managers,” acts as prosecutors before the Senate. The Senate sits as a High Court of Impeachment in which senators consider evidence, hear witnesses, and vote to acquit or convict the impeached official. In the case of presidential impeachment trials, the chief justice of the United States presides. The Constitution requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate to convict, and the penalty for an impeached official upon conviction is removal from office. In some cases, the Senate has also disqualified such officials from holding public offices in the future. There is no appeal.

Since 1789, about half of Senate impeachment trials have resulted in conviction and removal from office.

https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Senate_Impeachment_Role.htm#1
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The articles are delivered by the managers. And there are none. Along with no articles to send over with them.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Trump has been IMPEACHED.

I know...I know...that really bothers you.

Okay...be bothered...and I thank you for showing how bothered you are by posting about it.

In the meantime...Trump HAS BEEN IMPEACHED BY THE HOUSE.
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Nope. The articles of impeachment never arrived at the Senate.
 
Sailor said:
I just showed you in your own link that it is correct.
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trump is still impeached no matter how you try to spin it. Now we are waiting for the 2nd step, which is the Senate finalizing trial procedures. Why are they holding up this step?

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Democrats won't name impeachment managers or transmit the articles of impeachment to the Senate until the upper chamber finalizes the procedures for the trial.
"When we see the process that's set forth in the Senate, then we'll know the number of managers we'll have to move forward, and who we would choose," the California Democrat said."

 
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