A Civil Discussion: Evolution, Science, Theology, Atheism, Climate

Hopefully this proves to be useful.

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ThatOwlWoman said:
WTF is wrong with some of these righties around here? Yaya, this turd, Toxic, Q-Tip, Havana, Eagle Eye, RB 60 -- what is up with their pathological need to follow the same people around trying to start crap? All they do is try to derail the adults' conversation with their stupid insults and pettiness. I can't think of any lefties who do the same, can you?
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I'm guessing they hate their lives and the poor decisions that they've made and now have to live with that brought them to this point.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I grew up in a community of scientists, most of whom were Christians. That was, of course 50+ years ago. My dad was a scientist and a Christian as well. I suspect though that Nordberg is correct and that most current scientists tend towards atheism. Just like American politics, Christianity has become polarized as well.

BTW, back then most of the scientists we knew were Republicans. I bet that is not true today, among current scientists.
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That’s true. Back in the 80’s I was a Republican and most people I knew with a science background were. The GOP’s anti intellectualism has alienated a lot of people with scientific backgrounds. So has free market fundamentalism where apparently only middle men and corporate managers are the only people who produce mentality has alienated lots of professionals and technologist from the GOP and understandably so.

Where I live the political divide isn’t between rural conservatives and urban liberals. It’s really small business owners and corporate managers class against the professional and technical class.
 
Darth Omar said:
Do whales practice or debate politics lol?

Our ability to manipulate the environment exceeds anything done by any other species by many magnitudes. Even if chimps had the ability to talk they lack the brain capacity to ‘think of what to say’. You have to be able to conceptualize and think in abstract terms to communicate verbally.

We are unique. It’s simply a fact. And again, I’m astounded I have to explain it over and over again.

Why does it matter that humans are unique?
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Indeed they do. Many cetaceans have brain to body mass ratios comparable to or larger than humans. They have complex communication abilities as sophisticated as humans and in some respects superior and the also show a mastery of their environment that humans can’t compete in and social structures every bit as complex as humans including abstract concepts like family and heirarchy. The same is true of certain avian species, particularly the parotidae, who have comparable intelligence, adaptability, mastery of environment, communication skills, social structures, etc,.

The only thing where humans stand apart from other animals is the extent to which we use tools.

That’s not including plants either. Go visit a rain forest or the taiga forest and tell me humans are the dominant life forms there. You’ll be humbled real quick in your relative insignificance.
 
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Thing1 said:
You cherrypick accomplishments as though they mean anything. Practicing politics? Is that such a differentiator?

It's all just scale. Other species have intelligence & reasoning ability, empathy, art. You really overplay it.
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Art lol? How do animals perceive art?

I give up. Though this debate is instructional in a way. Things like euthanasia, abortion and the like become more ethical if humans aren’t distinct from other animals.

We are just another kind of animal, none of it really matters.
 
Darth Omar said:
And when humans become extinct there will be no one to consider what went on in the past. Do dolphins do paleontology?

Humans are unique amongst the other mammals. It astounding that I need to defend that *fact*. We aren’t talking opinion here.
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ZzzzzzzZZZZZzzzz

Every species is unique.

How many times are you going to restate this inane and pointless comment?

If there is a God I doubt he thinks we need to blow more smoke up our own ass while ignoring the harm we do to the many other wonderful life forms that inhabit this world.
 
Thing1 said:
You cherrypick accomplishments as though they mean anything. Practicing politics? Is that such a differentiator?

It's all just scale. Other species have intelligence & reasoning ability, empathy, art. You really overplay it.
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Animals have intelligence and to a limited degree, ability to reason & have empathy. They are guided by instincts.
Animals have 3 main concerns: eat, sleep, breed. They will fight to the death for all 3. They don't sit idly reasoning that others will deliver it to them.
If a wolf sees a bowl of rocks and a bowl of steak, they'll reason that the steak is what they need.
As for art, some animals can certainly be taught tricks (by humans)...singing, dancing, draw something, jump through hoops of fire, etc.
I've yet to see a pelican Picasso.
 
Stretch said:
Animals have intelligence and to a limited degree, ability to reason & have empathy. They are guided by instincts.
Animals have 3 main concerns: eat, sleep, breed. They will fight to the death for all 3. They don't sit idly reasoning that others will deliver it to them.
If a wolf sees a bowl of rocks and a bowl of steak, they'll reason that the steak is what they need.
As for art, some animals can certainly be taught tricks (by humans)...singing, dancing, draw something, jump through hoops of fire, etc.
I've yet to see a pelican Picasso.
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You're forgetting about dolphins and whales.
 
Darth Omar said:
Art lol? How do animals perceive art?

I give up. Though this debate is instructional in a way. Things like euthanasia, abortion and the like become more ethical if humans aren’t distinct from other animals.

We are just another kind of animal, none of it really matters.
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Whew - that is one poor attempt to bring in social issues.

Sorry that we're not special.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That’s true. Back in the 80’s I was a Republican and most people I knew with a science background were. The GOP’s anti intellectualism has alienated a lot of people with scientific backgrounds. So has free market fundamentalism where apparently only middle men and corporate managers are the only people who produce mentality has alienated lots of professionals and technologist from the GOP and understandably so.

Where I live the political divide isn’t between rural conservatives and urban liberals. It’s really small business owners and corporate managers class against the professional and technical class.
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Interesting observations, thanks.
 
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