Alfie Evans now at peace

Many don't need or use it. The NHS is excellent for emergencies but there is usually a waiting list for elective surgery.

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Right, that’s what it’s become, but that’s not how it was sold. A bloated ineffective bureaucracy that thousands depend on. Why have it? Create a smaller scale safety net if its just “emergency care”. Let people keep their tax dollars for health savings debit cards.

But out I digress- this is about a monstrous bureaucracy that held an infant hostage to his very death.
 
Have you ever heard of a child, with over 90% of its brain tissue destroyed, making a recovery? The poor mite had no brain left and wasn't even human anymore, can you show me one case of a brain self regenerating?

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WTF? First, we don’t know what may have been a final outcome. It certainly wasnt some fucking paper pushers right to hold him hostage to kill him.
 
Seriously, this is your comparison? The family didn’t want the hospital to keep her on ventilation-
Well I am sure that there are a lot more, but the salient point is that a judge forced the hospital to turn off life support. That is something I was told only happens in socialist countries!!

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Right, that’s what it’s become, but that’s not how it was sold. A bloated ineffective bureaucracy that thousands depend on. Why have it? Create a smaller scale safety net if its just “emergency care”. Let people keep their tax dollars for health savings debit cards.

But out I digress- this is about a monstrous bureaucracy that held an infant hostage to his very death.

A benevolent god doesn’t allow this to happen.
 
Right, that’s what it’s become, but that’s not how it was sold. A bloated ineffective bureaucracy that thousands depend on. Why have it? Create a smaller scale safety net if its just “emergency care”. Let people keep their tax dollars for health savings debit cards.

But out I digress- this is about a monstrous bureaucracy that held an infant hostage to his very death.
It isn't just emergency care ffs, the NHS is a comprehensive integrated system. I can see you find that hard to relate to, so I will bid you adieu as you just being irrational and guided by dogma.

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The NHS works much better than our own system and I wish we had something like that here. I support single payer but I think modeling ourselves off of the British system would be ideal.
 
Well I am sure that there are a lot more, but the salient point is that a judge forced the hospital to turn off life support. That is something I was told only happens in socialist countries!!

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it isn’t a salient point at all.
 
It isn't just emergency care ffs, the NHS is a comprehensive integrated system. I can see you find that hard to relate to, so I will bid you adieu as you just being irrational and guided by dogma.

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You were the one who put it forth as an excellent emergency care apparatus, as most people have secondary care. It’s a bloated bureaucracy that sucks people’s income, then rations care. It’s main game now is picking winners and losers. That it has set itself up as executioner is monstrous!
 
You were the one who put it forth as an excellent emergency care apparatus, as most people have secondary care. It’s a bloated bureaucracy that sucks people’s income, then rations care. It’s main game now is picking winners and losers. That it has set itself up as executioner is monstrous!
You are deliberately attempting to misconstrue my words, so I am out.

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You are deliberately attempting to misconstrue my words, so I am out.

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No, I didn’t. This isn’t personal. This is rational fair criticism of a bloated bureaucracy turned arbiter of life and death. It’s critisism of socialism. What the NHS perpetrated against Alfie Evans parents IS grotesque.
 
Those who accuse doctors of murdering Alfie Evans are guilty of ignorance and cruelty, says former top brain surgeon HENRY MARSH

By Henry Marsh For The Mail On Sunday 02:02, 29 Apr 2018, updated 02:05, 29 Apr 2018

The news was as tragic as it was inevitable.

Alfie Evans, the 23-month-old boy whose rare degenerative brain condition sparked a long legal battle over whether his life support should be withdrawn, lost his fight for life yesterday.

Alfie’s parents, who fought so hard for their son, should be allowed to grieve in peace.

Nobody can blame them for refusing to accept the inevitability of his death.*l

But their grief and despair have been hijacked by mob sentiment, provoked by extremists acting as provocateurs to stir up hatred against the very people who had done so much to help him.

As a senior neurosurgeon, I am not only familiar with matters of life, death and the terrible burden of deciding where the boundary between the two might lie.

I know, too, about the vast kindness, endless dedication and humanity of my colleagues in the Health Service who must be protected from the sort of vilification – and even death threats – we have seen in recent days.

Who can forget the grotesque sight of the baying mob, who last week attempted to storm Alder Hey Children’s Hospital, where Alfie was cared for until the end by a skilled and committed team of doctors and nurses?

Police were called to guard staff and other patients from the protesters.

Alfie’s father, Tom Evans, threatened to take out private prosecutions for murder against three doctors who had so diligently cared for his son.

Those who have distastefully sought to make political capital from this tragic episode include pro-life campaigners, libertarians who think the State has no place in deciding when treatment should be withdrawn, advocates of quack medicines and even the rabble-rousing former American congressman Joe Walsh, who tweeted last week: ‘Why does an American need an AR-15 [a type of gun]?*To make sure what’s happening to Alfie Evans never happens here.’

Does he seriously suggest that Alfie’s doctors and nurses should be murdered with assault rifles?

Those who rail against the supposed injustice of Alfie’s treatment would do well to read the lengthy judgment of Mr Justice Hayden, who presided over the High Court application for the hospital to be allowed to take Alfie off a life-support machine, a decision that ultimately brought his short life to a close.

The 23-page document describes in painstaking detail how the hospital and its doctors bent over backwards to accommodate the wishes of Alfie’s parents. Some of the details are distressing.

Alfie was first diagnosed with encephalopathy – a condition in which the brain is steadily destroyed – when he was just six months old.

His condition grew inexorably worse until he became unresponsive and his only physical reactions were spasms.

A brain scan carried out on 2nd February confirmed the progressive destruction of the white matter of Alfie’s brain which, doctors said, appeared ‘almost identical to water and cerebrospinal fluid’.

The diagnosis of specialists from Alder Hey – which the judge acknowledged as ‘world-class’ – was reviewed by specialists from Great Ormond Street, Munich and Rome.

They agreed Alfie’s condition was incurable and that he was in a semi-vegetative state. Every care, in other words, was taken at every stage.

With all the specialists agreeing that treatment was futile, the only dispute was over how long he should be artificially kept alive – a decision in which the court weighed Alfie’s needs and his quality of life.

Last week, the judge refused the family’s request to take their son for treatment in Rome and criticised an adviser of theirs – law student Pavel Stroilov, who is linked to the pro-life Christian Legal Centre – as a ‘fanatical and deluded young man’ whose legal advice had come close to contempt of court.

Such is the nature of the people deriding our medical profession in such destructive terms.

Those in the screaming mob accusing doctors and nurses of murder had no idea as to how Alfie’s condition could be treated.*

They had no understanding of the nature of catastrophic brain damage and what it can mean.

This is not an argument about the medical profession playing God. Instead we are talking about long hours of dedicated labour and expertise which must take precedence over mob sentiment.

By all means campaign for your beliefs, but you have no right to terrorise the doctors and nurses who are doing their best to help their patients – work which is difficult enough as it is.

And why frighten the other sick children in the hospital? How can you possibly justify that?

Yes, the case of Alfie Evans was horribly difficult, but the rule of the mob has no part to play.

The people who took part in the demonstrations outside Alder Hey should be ashamed of themselves.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ing-Alfie-Evans-guilty-ignorance-cruelty.html

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Last edited:
Those who accuse doctors of murdering Alfie Evans are guilty of ignorance and cruelty, says former top brain surgeon HENRY MARSH

By Henry Marsh For The Mail On Sunday 02:02, 29 Apr 2018, updated 02:05, 29 Apr 2018

The news was as tragic as it was inevitable.

Alfie Evans, the 23-month-old boy whose rare degenerative brain condition sparked a long legal battle over whether his life support should be withdrawn, lost his fight for life yesterday.

Alfie’s parents, who fought so hard for their son, should be allowed to grieve in peace.

Nobody can blame them for refusing to accept the inevitability of his death.*l

But their grief and despair have been hijacked by mob sentiment, provoked by extremists acting as provocateurs to stir up hatred against the very people who had done so much to help him.

As a senior neurosurgeon, I am not only familiar with matters of life, death and the terrible burden of deciding where the boundary between the two might lie.

I know, too, about the vast kindness, endless dedication and humanity of my colleagues in the Health Service who must be protected from the sort of vilification – and even death threats – we have seen in recent days.

Who can forget the grotesque sight of the baying mob, who last week attempted to storm Alder Hey Children’s Hospital, where Alfie was cared for until the end by a skilled and committed team of doctors and nurses?

Police were called to guard staff and other patients from the protesters.

Alfie’s father, Tom Evans, threatened to take out private prosecutions for murder against three doctors who had so diligently cared for his son.

Those who have distastefully sought to make political capital from this tragic episode include pro-life campaigners, libertarians who think the State has no place in deciding when treatment should be withdrawn, advocates of quack medicines and even the rabble-rousing former American congressman Joe Walsh, who tweeted last week: ‘Why does an American need an AR-15 [a type of gun]?*To make sure what’s happening to Alfie Evans never happens here.’

Does he seriously suggest that Alfie’s doctors and nurses should be murdered with assault rifles?

Those who rail against the supposed injustice of Alfie’s treatment would do well to read the lengthy judgment of Mr Justice Hayden, who presided over the High Court application for the hospital to be allowed to take Alfie off a life-support machine, a decision that ultimately brought his short life to a close.

The 23-page document describes in painstaking detail how the hospital and its doctors bent over backwards to accommodate the wishes of Alfie’s parents. Some of the details are distressing.

Alfie was first diagnosed with encephalopathy – a condition in which the brain is steadily destroyed – when he was just six months old.

His condition grew inexorably worse until he became unresponsive and his only physical reactions were spasms.

A brain scan carried out on 2nd February confirmed the progressive destruction of the white matter of Alfie’s brain which, doctors said, appeared ‘almost identical to water and cerebrospinal fluid’.

The diagnosis of specialists from Alder Hey – which the judge acknowledged as ‘world-class’ – was reviewed by specialists from Great Ormond Street, Munich and Rome.

They agreed Alfie’s condition was incurable and that he was in a semi-vegetative state. Every care, in other words, was taken at every stage.

With all the specialists agreeing that treatment was futile, the only dispute was over how long he should be artificially kept alive – a decision in which the court weighed Alfie’s needs and his quality of life.

Last week, the judge refused the family’s request to take their son for treatment in Rome and criticised an adviser of theirs – law student Pavel Stroilov, who is linked to the pro-life Christian Legal Centre – as a ‘fanatical and deluded young man’ whose legal advice had come close to contempt of court.

Such is the nature of the people deriding our medical profession in such destructive terms.

Those in the screaming mob accusing doctors and nurses of murder had no idea as to how Alfie’s condition could be treated.*

They had no understanding of the nature of catastrophic brain damage and what it can mean.

This is not an argument about the medical profession playing God. Instead we are talking about long hours of dedicated labour and expertise which must take precedence over mob sentiment.

By all means campaign for your beliefs, but you have no right to terrorise the doctors and nurses who are doing their best to help their patients – work which is difficult enough as it is.

And why frighten the other sick children in the hospital? How can you possibly justify that?

Yes, the case of Alfie Evans was horribly difficult, but the rule of the mob has no part to play.

The people who took part in the demonstrations outside Alder Hey should be ashamed of themselves.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ing-Alfie-Evans-guilty-ignorance-cruelty.html

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I would suggest that the posters that started whining about state sponsored murder read this, and then kindly shut the fuck up.

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imagepng
 
“When we give Government the power to make medical decisions for us, we in essence accept that The State owns our bodies.”

Rand Paul
 
I would suggest that the posters that started whining about state sponsored murder read this and then kindly shut the fuck up.

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I suggest no one is fucking whining. For myself, I’m outraged that the state, not the family, can decide to end an infants life.
 
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