Mental Illness

cawacko

Well-known member
I know there is no simple or easy answer to this issue but should mentally ill or drug addicted people be allowed to live on the streets or should cities force them into institutions or force them to take medication?

This article is from yesterday's SF Chronicle and the author is writing about all the complaints she's received from locals and tourists after she wrote about SF's homeless and drug problem two weeks ago. I highlighted the portion where she asks if its compassionate to let people live on the streets.

Thoughts?




Cable cars climb halfway to the stars, but SF tourists remember the low points


There are a lot of reasons for San Francisco residents and visitors alike to spend their money in the city this holiday season, Mayor Ed Lee told reporters gathered at a press conference at the Museum of Ice Cream on Monday morning.

The small businesses that sell locally made items not found on Amazon or in the aisles of Walmart. The fantastic restaurants. The whimsy of the colorful city, where tickets are sold out to the pink-emblazoned pop-up museum with a sprinkle pool, and Unicorn Snot Lip Gloss is for sale in the gift shop for $6.50.

But there are also a lot of reasons not to visit San Francisco. That’s been made abundantly clear to me over the past week as locals and tourists have filled my in-box with responses to my column about the highs and lows of hosting my in-laws from England.

While the cable cars, the Golden Gate Bridge, the food, the beauty and the eclectic neighborhoods draw visitors from around the world, the open-air injection-drug use, sprawling tent encampments, rampant mental illness, car break-ins and dirty streets are, sadly, becoming just as well-known.

Richard Robertson of Edmonton, Alberta, last week brought his 9-year-old daughter, Anna, to the city for her first visit. The highlights? Walking along Ocean Beach, the views of the bay from the piers and the clang of the cable cars.

The worst moment came when he, his wife and Anna — clutching a stuffed animal — were walking south on the Embarcadero to the Ferry Building for an early dinner.
“A topless and obviously drugged-up, crazed female seemed to emerge from out of nowhere, approached my daughter and extended her two middle fingers right into her face and started screaming ‘F— you!’ at her,” he wrote.

Robertson said his family was in shock and didn’t know what to do. He was also stunned that the incident sparked no response from anybody on the busy sidewalk.

“Streets filled with drug-induced lunacy and people with other severe mental health issues should not be ignored and swept under the rug by the citizens of San Francisco and its civic leaders,” he wrote.

It’s hard to argue with that. And for those “compassionate” advocates who have a live-and-let-live approach: What results is your method accomplishing for those mentally ill and drug addicted people?

Robert Donoghue was in town last week from Boylston, Mass., for his granddaughter’s first birthday. On Wednesday, he went to the Legion of Honor to see the Klimt and Rodin exhibit before heading to the airport for his flight home.

Two hours later, Donoghue realized his rented Jeep had been broken into in the museum’s parking lot, and $8,000 worth of electronics, medication and other items had been stolen from the rear cargo area.

“We went to the museum immediately and reported it. Their response was, ‘This happens all the time.’ They didn’t even come down to look, nothing,” Donoghue said. Museum staff gave them the phone number for the Richmond District police station, which didn’t pick up until the fifth try when Donoghue was already at the airport.
“I will never step foot in San Francisco again — never ever,” he said.

A spokeswoman for the Legion of Honor said the parking lot is on Recreation and Park Department land and that the museum has asked for signs to be installed warning drivers about break-ins, but that none exist now.

Pat Frankenfield lives in Palo Alto and visited the city in September to see “An American in Paris” at the Orpheum and spend the night at the Donatello Hotel near Union Square. The walk between the two after the show was full of people sprawled across the sidewalks blatantly injecting drugs.

“What is wrong with city leaders?” she asked. Excellent question.

Cynthia Fitzgibbon, who now lives in South San Francisco, regularly hosts friends from all over the world. Pals from Germany were recently walking on Market Street when they were followed and screamed at by a clearly deranged person.

Fitzgibbon herself has recently seen blatant drug deals South of Market, an out-of-his-mind person ranting and throwing trash at people standing in line to ride the cable cars, and a man drop his pants to defecate right in front of her 6-year-old granddaughter outside the Curran Theater.

“There are so many good points about the city — it’s so unique and so beautiful,” Fitzgibbon told me. “But I think when it gets really not OK is when you’re fearful, when you’re accosted or when you encounter really dirty situations.”

That’s certainly a reasonable expectation in a world-class, wealthy city. So what is its leader doing about it?

Mayor Lee — after touring the goofy Museum of Ice Cream but before eating ice cream and playing pingpong with its co-founder, Manish Vora — said he is working hard on these issues.

“Mid-Market is still a work in progress,” he said. “It’s not perfect, but it’s getting better and better.”

A harm-reduction team launched in July is aiming to improve 100 blocks in the Mid-Market, Tenderloin and South of Market neighborhoods through increased foot patrols, more street cleaning, and mental health and substance abuse outreach.

Just how bad is the problem? So far the team has collected 38,438 needles and 199,740 pounds of trash. It’s made 885 referrals to services such as substance abuse treatment or homeless shelters, and has made 2,026 arrests.

Certain spots, including the wide sidewalk expanse outside the Burger King at Eighth and Market streets, are noticeably better. But there’s obviously a long, long way to go, especially after dark when the injection drug use gets even worse. But Lee said he encourages his family’s visitors to go to the Orpheum and other institutions in Mid-Market at any time of day.

By the way, diagonally across the street from the Museum of Ice Cream on Monday morning sat another familiar San Francisco site: Megan Doudney, the homeless mom who gained notoriety over the summer for panhandling on Market Street with her newborn baby.

She’s still staying in a shelter at night and still panhandling during the day with her daughter, who’s now 5 months old and has her first tooth. Police officers walking past stopped at the alarming sight, but couldn’t do much other than buy her diapers and formula.

Doudney said her shelter stay ends Dec. 12, at which point she plans to visit her mom in Nebraska and then maybe take a road trip. She said she’s thinking of going to school to study early childhood psychology.

Nothing seems certain for Doudney and her baby girl. But credit where credit is due: The baby appeared healthy, chubby and happy.


http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Cable-cars-climb-halfway-to-the-stars-but-SF-12372796.php
 
Interesting, but it is San Fransico's problem, the Tenderloin has always had that reputation, and the City has always prided itself on letting people do what they like, let it creep over to North Beach and I think you'll see action

Doesn't happen in Chinatown does it?
 
Interesting, but it is San Fransico's problem, the Tenderloin has always had that reputation, and the City has always prided itself on letting people do what they like, let it creep over to North Beach and I think you'll see action

Doesn't happen in Chinatown does it?

It's up and down Market St. The reality is we rely heavily on tourists and the money they spend here. If enough tourists get turned off by seeing this it will have a material affect on our revenues.

I've become numb to having mentally ill people yell at me, homeless begging on most major street corners, seeing people hit the crack pipe in the streets. But for people who don't live here I'm sure it's quite shocking.

There's just not an appetite from the City to do anything.
 
...having mentally ill people yell at me, homeless begging on most major street corners, seeing people hit the crack pipe in the streets. But for people who don't live here I'm sure it's quite shocking.

This is much of the reason that I don’t vacation in cities but choose national parks instead. I’d rather deal with bears getting into my stuff when I’m on vacation than panhandlers and such. But to answer your question, here’s another place where the big government side of me come out. I absolutely think government (cities or otherwise) should make these peoples’ lives better by institutionalizing them.
 
It's up and down Market St. The reality is we rely heavily on tourists and the money they spend here. If enough tourists get turned off by seeing this it will have a material affect on our revenues.

I've become numb to having mentally ill people yell at me, homeless begging on most major street corners, seeing people hit the crack pipe in the streets. But for people who don't live here I'm sure it's quite shocking.

There's just not an appetite from the City to do anything.

Do yourself a favor and stop walking by the DNC.
 
This is much of the reason that I don’t vacation in cities but choose national parks instead. I’d rather deal with bears getting into my stuff when I’m on vacation than panhandlers and such. But to answer your question, here’s another place where the big government side of me come out. I absolutely think government (cities or otherwise) should make these peoples’ lives better by institutionalizing them.

You wouldn't have that problem in NYC or Boston, even Chicago for that matter, your missing out on a lot
 
what do you want done? You can lock them up (drug possession/disturbing the peace) -but it's costly
and they get out and do it allover.

Or you can do harm reduction by giving them a chance for housing -but many can't run their own lives..

There isn't a real solid answer..Myself I think giving them free/low cost legal dope at least cuts out the crimes
to get money to buy drugs.
 
Drug addiction and mental health issues do go hand in hand. Ever since Reagan defunded community health centers that could deal with this we've had an escalating problem.
There was a time when society saw it as an obligation to take care of the weakest in society. Now some communities in this country ban people from even feeding homeless people and shun them from their communities.
The answer though not easy, is a healthcare system that adequately deals with addiction and mental health. It requires money. Maybe instead of handing over so much to the military we should put some into addressing these fundamentals of our society. Regretfully our society is too one dimensional and obsessed with money and power to honestly deal with these issues. Our problems in the past really reflected the nature of society, we would shun them in institutions where they were forgotten and allowed to be sadly abused. The difference I see today is we incarcerate a % of into for profit prisons, when not just looking the other way like in San Francisco.
 
what do you want done? You can lock them up (drug possession/disturbing the peace) -but it's costly
and they get out and do it allover.

Or you can do harm reduction by giving them a chance for housing -but many can't run their own lives..

There isn't a real solid answer..Myself I think giving them free/low cost legal dope at least cuts out the crimes
to get money to buy drugs.

Agreed and it's been shown in places like Portugal that full legalization has vastly dropped crime and ironically has reduced drug addiction.
Also in Portugal they have adequate clinics to deal with addiction issues.
 
Drug addiction and mental health issues do go hand in hand. Ever since Reagan defunded community health centers that could deal with this we've had an escalating problem.
There was a time when society saw it as an obligation to take care of the weakest in society. Now some communities in this country ban people from even feeding homeless people and shun them from their communities.
The answer though not easy, is a healthcare system that adequately deals with addiction and mental health. It requires money. Maybe instead of handing over so much to the military we should put some into addressing these fundamentals of our society. Regretfully our society is too one dimensional and obsessed with money and power to honestly deal with these issues. Our problems in the past really reflected the nature of society, we would shun them in institutions where they were forgotten and allowed to be sadly abused. The difference I see today is we incarcerate a % of into for profit prisons, when not just looking the other way like in San Francisco.

We spend millions upon millions upon millions of dollars on the homeless in SF. It is not from a lack of resources that we have the problems we do.
 
Agreed and it's been shown in places like Portugal that full legalization has vastly dropped crime and ironically has reduced drug addiction.
Also in Portugal they have adequate clinics to deal with addiction issues.
Make murder legal and you wouldn't have to put murders in jail....and problem solved by left wing logic.....
 
Back in the day we had large state mental hospitals where thousands were deemed incapable of making decisions for themselves so housed there. Anyone who understand the lyrics to Fire and Rain or has watched One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest will have at least one side of the story.

(I grew up a few miles from where James Taylor was committed. As kids we used to ride our BMX type bikes in the woods behind the buildings and saw dozens of old numbered graves behind the fenced area of that compound, so I'm sure lots of weird shit went on there.)

Then the so-called miracle drugs came around which allowed most of these people to function within the range considered normal so they got out and lived with their families and in some cases become productive citizens who could take care of themselves. Now it's somehow fashionable to have a problem but don't take the prescription and society is supposed to be OK with that. Obviously the pendulum has swung too far to one side and the situation has to be reevaluated and changes made. Yeah, that will mean some folks won't have rights that they think they should but if you are of reduced mental capacity and can't live a normal life that doesn't give you the right to be a nuisance to the rest of society.
 
just curious, but what about the responsibility of the family members with regards to someone who may be homeless or mentally ill......or even a drug addict?
 
just curious, but what about the responsibility of the family members with regards to someone who may be homeless or mentally ill......or even a drug addict?

I've seen a number of interviews with homeless people here and that's one of the first questions they are often asked, either where is your family or do you have family? Not surprisingly there are a wide array of answers but many said they haven't talked to family in years, that they just lost touch. Some said they were ashamed of their situation and didn't want to reach out.

Edit: My church works with a group whose goal is to re-connect the homeless with family members.
 
just curious, but what about the responsibility of the family members with regards to someone who may be homeless or mentally ill......or even a drug addict?

There's no question that a family with an afflicted adult has a moral obligation and I think for the most part live up to that, or try to.

Having lived with this second hand, my mother's brother was a functioning addict. Former Marine Sergeant, crashed his MG and the VA took him for a two-year ride on the morphine roller coaster. When he got out he graduated college, became an accountant with the Ford Motor Company, single, lived frugally and max'd out his stock portfolio with Ford matching investments. I don't know how many millions he had but enough to attract a certain type of woman who eventually worked him back into drugs and disenfranchised him from first his friends, then his family, then legally married him even though they never lived together. Even with medical and legal resources that my family has we couldn't bring him back to reality and he died alone. His estate, including long-held family property, went to his gold digger "wife".
 
Where you here people who have loved one's who are addicts you often hear there is very little you can do until the person truly decides they want to help themselves. Now i'm not saying that to let families off the hook but I'm sure we've all heard stories from addicts themselves that say no matter how much people tried to help them it wasn't until they made the decision they weren't going to get better.
 
Last edited:
We spend millions upon millions upon millions of dollars on the homeless in SF. It is not from a lack of resources that we have the problems we do.

As I'm sure you know San Francisco and California have a lot of issues dealing with limited housing which does make it a lot if worse. The real estate market is off the charts expensive. Plus all of California has a pretty big homeless community mostly because if you are homeless out west it's the only tolerable climate to live in. Especially as people go towards southern California. There are a lot of factors that make California a pretty unique mess for this kind of problem and I too do not have a simple answer for it. Oh a side note I got to experience first hand getting robbed by homeless people years a go while visiting there, I was there to shoot pictures for my job and I had a camera pack that was nice and shiny sitting in my rental car. It was literally shiny, not joking. Someone busted the window and stole it. They got nothing since I had the camera with me at the time. Was a slight inconvenience but all worked out, had rental insurance, lol.
 
Back
Top