DACA: Sins of the Father?

tsuke said:
With the Trump administration set to end DACA its supporters have come up with a uniform rallying cry in its defense. "In America we do not punish children for the sins of their parents"..
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Poor analogy. A better one is that no one gets to profit from their crime, and even if they give their ill-gotten gain away, we get to take it from that person and give it back to it's rightful owners.
 
Lovebug said:
You are kidding. Reagan is dead? OMG, why didn't anyone tell me? Are you serious? You are sooo smart.
Admitting where the problem started is the best first step in finding a solution.
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No one cares how it started.. Most of them are in denial or just don't care...

trump lacks the balls to follow through on his deportation boasting so he passed the buck on congress...

He will blame them if they act, or if they don't.... I don't see how this is gonna help the party he usurped..:dunno:
 
Alice in Liberaland said:
I don't argue against that. But every country has the right to control its immigration policy. Sorry but compassion doesn't enter into the argument. Everyone wants to cone here. It is unsustainable.

They gotta go
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Wouldn't it be best to define and/or enforce existing laws? Is it their fault that we have been porous for too long?
 
Bill said:
No one cares how it started.. Most of them are in denial or just don't care...

trump lacks the balls to follow through on his deportation boasting so he passed the buck on congress...

He will blame them if they act, or if they don't.... I don't see how this is gonna help the party he usurped..:dunno:
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Interesting spin. But this Obama policy is is illegal, and for Trump to continue it is also illegal. So Trump is giving Congress a deadline to do it legally in public debate, or can it. Why is that a bad thing?
 
Right said:
Interesting spin. But this Obama policy is is illegal, and for Trump to continue it is also illegal. So Trump is giving Congress a deadline to do it legally in public debate, or can it. Why is that a bad thing?
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Bad depends on who you ask....

What is the good option/outcome for congress??
 
Bill said:
No one cares how it started.. Most of them are in denial or just don't care...

trump lacks the balls to follow through on his deportation boasting so he passed the buck on congress...

He will blame them if they act, or if they don't.... I don't see how this is gonna help the party he usurped..:dunno:
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you are forgetting the states suing DoJ for relief from DACA..

States Ready Legal Action to Undo Obama Amnesty for ‘Dreamers’
http://dailysignal.com/2017/07/27/10-states-ready-legal-action-undo-obama-amnesty-dreamers/
 
The Obama employed sleazy tactics to implement his unconstitutional order:



Documents obtained through a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request show that the Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services (USCIS) abandoned required background checks for Obama’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) directive, which grants illegal aliens a two-year deferment from deportation.

Acting on a tip from a whistleblower at a federal law enforcement agency, Judicial Watch filed a FOIA request with DHS, for “all communications, memoranda, emails, policy guidance, directives, initiatives, and any other correspondence respecting the scope and extent of background checks to be performed (or not) on aliens applying to the Obama administration’s DACA program.”

The FOIA was filed on October 26, 2012. The FOIA documents reveal a costly, haphazard process, with only cursory review for the backgrounds of illegal aliens seeking “deferred status.”

Document highlights include:

In a series of agency memos beginning in September 14, 2012, field offices were told to expect the National Benefits Center (which collects all DACA applications) to conduct only “lean & lite” background checks on illegal alien applicants, and that, henceforth, “NBC will not perform full TECS checks or any evidence review on these cases before we ship to the field.”

An October 14 memo reiterated that under the new “lean and lite” policy, “Hits will be sent to the field without resolution.”

An email chain from September 5 and through November 14 indicates managerial pressure not to turn any illegal alien applicant away for lack of ID, including the explicit directive in an October 3 memo, “Biometric processing should not be refused solely because an applicant does not present an acceptable ID.”

On November 9, 2012, just three days after Obama was reelected, in an “!!! IMPORTANT DACA MESSAGE!!! The agency was directed to: “Please put all DACA work on hold until further notice.”

There are no later-dated documents in the production to indicate if USCIS ever resumed DACA background checks.

The documents also reveal that, contrary to DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano’s claim that DACA applied only to minors who came to this country illegally “through no fault of their own,” the directive actually created a new avenue of chain migration, whereby immediate relatives of DACA requesters could be approved for amnesty.


http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/homeland-security-documents-reveal-dhs-abandoned-required-illegal-alien-background-checks-to-meet-flood-of-amnesty-requests-following-obamas-deferred-action-for-childhood-arrivals-directive/
 
Right said:
Poor analogy. A better one is that no one gets to profit from their crime, and even if they give their ill-gotten gain away, we get to take it from that person and give it back to it's rightful owners.
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Inapt. If undocumented Lupe brings baby Yasmine to the US and Yasmine gets relief under DACA so she can work for two years, who is that inchoate right being assigned back to? Who was it taken from? Give me a name? Hans, the illegal from Holland? He has no right in your book either? Do we give it to Cletus from Mississippi? He doesn't need it to work and no rights of citizenship were taken from him.
 
Bill said:
What is the gop congress going to do??
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Who knows? I don't.

Bill said:
How do they come out ahead on this??
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Who knows? I don't.

If they waffle, it may cost the ones running in the midterms dearly if their constituents decide to replace them in the primaries as a result of their failure.

8 GOP Senate seats are on the line, and 241 in the House. Should be quite a ride. While DACA/DREAM Act action by itself may not be significant, you can never tell what voters are really going to do. Even exit polls aren't completely reliable, because people can lie to the pollsters.

I can't see much upside for them either way.
 
tsuke said:
View attachment 4655

https://tsukesthoughts.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/daca-sins-of-the-father/

DACA: Sins of the Father?

With the Trump administration set to end DACA its supporters have come up with a uniform rallying cry in its defense. "In America we do not punish children for the sins of their parents".

Except we do. All the time. One of the most important concepts that almost all Democrats hold dear is affirmative action. Doesn't this punish the children because their ancestors were supposedly racist?

If somebody robs a bank and gives the money to his children what do we do? Do we leave the money with his children as returning it to their original owner would be punishing them? No we would return the money to the owner of the property.*

What if the parent and child would illegally squat in an apartment or home owned by someone else? Would we say they can stay there because the child did nothing wrong? Or would we evict them?*

If a single parent murders someone in cold blood do we keep him out of prison because it would hurt the child? No the murderer goes into prison and the child gets put into some foster home or relative.*

It would actually be fairly rare to find a situation where a child is not punished in some way for the actions of his parent.*

In any case the illegals are not blameless as they did cross the border without getting the proper authorization. Remember we are not talking about criminal cases here but rather civil cases where in some cases actual commission of the act is enough even without intent. I encourage everyone to keep this in mind as supporters of DACA try to*make the case for its morality using the much stricter standards of criminal justice and law.

Now that we have dispensed with the platitudes let us discuss what is really happening. Why is congress both republicans and democrats so hell bent on encouraging illegal immigration?

Democrats

For Democrats its simple. Its all about the votes. I will not go down the path of people voting illegally as that is always sure to start an argument. I will just point out that political parties think in terms of decades and not just years. The DACA "children" have already been here for 8 years and for some of them even longer. They may even be adults now capable of having children of their own. Children who by virtue of birthright citizenship (something only one or two countries provide) will be American citizens. These people can then vote for Democrats in the future.

Democrats are fond of saying that Demographics is destiny as a prophesy of their eventually victory. This is the Democrats pushing that along.

Republicans

To be completely fair this next section does not only apply to Republicans. Establishment Democrats want this as much as their Republican counterparts do. Our politicans want this because it serves their corporate paymasters. Encouraging more illegal immigration with DACA and other measures like that increases the amount of labor available which reduces its cost and bargaining power. Leading to lower wages to everyone.

All Republicans and most Democrats claim to be capitalists who favor free trade and free markets. Under a capitalist system labor is just like any other commodity. If there is a scarcity of labor then its prices increase and if there is too much labor then its prices decrease. It is funny. When the free market dictate that the price of labor decrease our politicians turn into avatars of the free market. When the free market dictates that the price of labor increases our politicians cannot stand it and work to correct it.

We all want wages to increase to help the economy. The only way to do that is to control the supply of labor. Ending DACA is a step in this direction.
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BUT-BUT; those examples aren't the same. :palm:
 
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Micawber said:
Inapt. If undocumented Lupe brings baby Yasmine to the US and Yasmine gets relief under DACA so she can work for two years, who is that inchoate right being assigned back to? Who was it taken from? Give me a name? Hans, the illegal from Holland? He has no right in your book either? Do we give it to Cletus from Mississippi? He doesn't need it to work and no rights of citizenship were taken from him.
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The citizens of whatever state Lupe moved into.
 
Rune said:
They can't, that is the beauty of it and Trump could care less and interestingly
ILA doesn't either.
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I hope they don't pass shit and Trump ends it. That is what I hope happens. It didn't pass the countless other times it was before congress. Maybe this time will be different?

:dunno:

I am just glad Trump is acting Constitutionally. Yet here you libtards cry about an impending dictatorship

You are too stupid to get the irony that it was Obama acting like a dictator and Trump is returning to the rule of law.
 
Alice in Liberaland said:
I hope they don't pass shit and Trump ends it. That is what I hope happens. It didn't pass the countless other times it was before congress. Maybe this time will be different?

:dunno:

I am just glad Trump is acting Constitutionally. Yet here you libtards cry about an impending dictatorship

You are too stupid to get the irony that it was Obama acting like a dictator and Trump is returning to the rule of law.
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Eat shit and die, cuck.
 
Alice in Liberaland said:
I hope they don't pass shit and Trump ends it. That is what I hope happens. It didn't pass the countless other times it was before congress. Maybe this time will be different?

:dunno:

I am just glad Trump is acting Constitutionally. Yet here you libtards cry about an impending dictatorship

You are too stupid to get the irony that it was Obama acting like a dictator and Trump is returning to the rule of law.
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Eat shit and die, cuck.
 
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