Can Trump And Putin Destroy The Deep State?

Forbes: Why Russia Cannot Become Our Friend: Memo to President Trump

Regrettably, the prospects for a successful negotiation*with Putin over the “unsatisfactory condition of Russian-American relations” are near zero for the following reasons: The Putin regime requires confrontation with the US for its very survival, while Trump must deliver “beautiful deals” that “make American great again.” If Trump were to sign a deal which does not yield real enforceable concessions by Putin on Crimea, east Ukraine, or the Middle East, Trump’s deal-making image would be shattered along with his presidency.

As Trump prepares to go head-to-head with Putin, he must understand what Germany’s Angela Merkel describes as Putin’s “parallel world.” In any negotiation, Putin will be fighting for the survival of his regime and himself. Putin has remarkably turned Ronald Reagan’s “evil empire” on its head. According to the Kremlin narrative, it is the United States and its puppet NATO that are intent on dismembering Russia. The US has become the “evil empire” bent on imposing its corrupt political (after WikiLeaks) and civilizational values on Russia, the last great bastion of Christianity, patriotism, morality, and good will.

Putin justifies his repression of his own people, his sacrifice of economic welfare, his isolation of Russia, and his risky military adventurism as the necessary defense of a “besieged fortress.” Any deal with Trump that establishes a “satisfactory condition” of Russian-American relations removes the justification for Putin’s kleptocracy, Russia’s costly military buildup, and for Putin himself.

--

Putin’s Stalinesque claim that all social and political unrest is instigated from abroad renders virtually every truckers’ strike, miners’ protest, or critical Facebook posting a CIA, US State Department, or Germany BND operation. External aggression and internal repression blur the distinction between the armed services and national guards and militias which are tasked with domestic security. Putin’s National Guard, commanded by a loyalist, numbers close to 400,000 plus tanks, helicopters, and tanks to “fight terrorism.” A “terrorist” in Putin’s vocabulary is anyone who poses a threat to “the Russian state’” namely to Putin himself.

The Russian narrative claims its struggle is for the future of civilization itself. Russia must therefore be prepared to deploy its nuclear weapons “as a primary tool for foreign policy coercion.” Russia has explicitly singled out former Soviet bloc countries that have entered or are entering the Western orbit as a clear and present danger. If this threat escalates, Russia must be prepared to intervene. If Russian forces are outgunned, there is always the nuclear option.

The Russian narrative claims its struggle is for the future of civilization itself. Russia must therefore be prepared to deploy its nuclear weapons “as a primary tool for foreign policy coercion.” Russia has explicitly singled out former Soviet bloc countries that have entered or are entering the Western orbit as a clear and present danger. If this threat escalates, Russia must be prepared to intervene. If Russian forces are outgunned, there is always the nuclear option.

Putin’s cards are, however, stronger than they appear. Internal dissent has been smashed. He has centralized power in his own hands, while Trump must work with allies, who are being pulled apart by national interests and by Russian meddling. Putin’s propaganda machine has kept the Russian people on board despite a defense buildup (to 5.4 percent of GDP) at the sacrifice of living standards (down 15 percent) and public health. Putin can rattle the nuclear saber to offset the US’s stronger military. Unlike the US presidential cycle that requires quick results, Putin can play a long hand with the presumption that time is on his side.

In his few public statements on the subject, Trump has declared that the US and Russia’s shared interest in fighting ISIS will provide the foundation for improved relations. Despite frenetic efforts of the outgoing Secretary of State to find this common ground, the outgoing US Secretary of Defense declared in frustration that the Russians “haven’t done anything to fight ISIS.”* In fact, Russia does not perceive itself, despite its own 20 million ethnic Muslims, at risk from Islamic terrorism. Russia has*suffered*only eight Islamic terrorist attacks, killing 708, mostly in remote regions. Putin has used terrorist incidents for political advantage. In Chechnya, Putin has a private army led by a loyalist ready to kill not only terrorists but their*families. Putin is confident his police state can infiltrate Islamic groups. So far, Russia’s Syrian air war has targeted regime opponents, not ISIS. Events do not support the notion that Russia is a natural ally against Islamic extremism.

The Middle East offers few prospects for agreement. Iran and Russia are allies, have strong commercial ties, and Iran is the world’s largest supporter of international terrorism, which destabilizes the Western world, to Russia’s delight. Russia has demonstrated that it will use all its military power to keep client Assad in power. Nor does Russia want to help Europe with its refugee crisis because the influx of Middle Easterners is destabilizing the European Union, whose disintegration is one of Putin’s major goals.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulro...-friend-memo-to-president-trump/#1356e0d17cda
 
You can't even figure out the OBVIOUS underhanded bullshit right in front of your face.

Thread after thread about how the Russian investigation is worthless and how your orange clown is so wise and knowledgeable. All bullshit.

Unbeknownst to you, we ARE managing the relationship. Putin is a KGB thug and murderer. He is our adversary, and we cannot trust anything he says. That's the relationship.

This right-wing tactic of "Putin is our friend' comes on the eve of deeper revelations about the depth of the relationship between Trump and Russia .. so they're spreading this bullshit in hopes of infection the American people with it. You are a willing stooge for treason.

But you expect people to believe that suddenly you're some expert on geo-political politics?

You have become a mouthpiece for America's biggest adversary.
Has there ever been a conspiracy theory that you haven't fallen for or endorsed? You are started to look like a slightly more literate version of Desh ffs.

Sent from my iPhone 25 GT Turbo
 
You can't even figure out the OBVIOUS underhanded bullshit right in front of your face.

Thread after thread about how the Russian investigation is worthless and how your orange clown is so wise and knowledgeable. All bullshit.

Unbeknownst to you, we ARE managing the relationship. Putin is a KGB thug and murderer. He is our adversary, and we cannot trust anything he says. That's the relationship.

This right-wing tactic of "Putin is our friend' comes on the eve of deeper revelations about the depth of the relationship between Trump and Russia .. so they're spreading this bullshit in hopes of infection the American people with it. You are a willing stooge for treason.

But you expect people to believe that suddenly you're some expert on geo-political politics?

You have become a mouthpiece for America's biggest adversary.
My geopolitics eclipses your simplistic Russiaphobia.
He is our adversary, and we cannot trust anything he says. That's the relationship.
duh..there are ways to manage beyond "trust"

The investigation(s) center on "Russian Collusion" -there has not been any evidence -
even the testimonies say that.

Doe that mean that Flynn wasn't corrupt,or some guys had Russian banking ties -or like Manafort was a Ukrainian foreign agent?
So what?

none of that changes he fact the US/Russia are standing off over Europe. the number 1 and 2 military powers
are in a dangerous hostile relationship "the worst ever" according to both Putin and Trump..

We are pouring more and more men and material into Europe -expanding our deployments,
and putting up more and more redundant weapons systems..and its NOT making either of us any safer

It's just making John McCain more hungry for more
( he wants yet more money-$30b/year- for defense over the Trump increases) and it's fooling you and the Russiaphobes that this is money well spent.

"Trust but verify" (Reagan) is the way to go with Putin. More verifying then any trust actually.
We can make agreements,and easily verify
 
Forbes: Why Russia Cannot Become Our Friend: Memo to President Trump


The Middle East offers few prospects for agreement. Iran and Russia are allies, have strong commercial ties, and Iran is the world’s largest supporter of international terrorism, which destabilizes the Western world, to Russia’s delight. Russia has demonstrated that it will use all its military power to keep client Assad in power. Nor does Russia want to help Europe with its refugee crisis because the influx of Middle Easterners is destabilizing the European Union, whose disintegration is one of Putin’s major goals.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulro...-friend-memo-to-president-trump/#1356e0d17cda
Merkel of course has an interest in NATO expansion, and weapons
++
ROFL @ "Hoover Institution look at it's alumi! a bastion of neocons and "human righters"
The institution has been a place of scholarship for individuals who previously held high-profile positions in government, such as George Shultz, Condoleezza Rice, Michael Boskin, Edward Lazear, John B. Taylor, Edwin Meese,

it's short sighted.it says Putin can only govern by confrontation..
Suppose the sanctions were liftedd and the Russian economy showed real growth?
do you not think that would keep Putin in power also?
++
*Simplistic rubbish by a neo-con institution*
 
Has there ever been a conspiracy theory that you haven't fallen for or endorsed? You are started to look like a slightly more literate version of Desh ffs.

Sent from my iPhone 25 GT Turbo

I appreciate any and all comparisons to Desh and myself.

.. as long as you don't compare me to you and your braindead ilk, I'm good.
 
My geopolitics eclipses your simplistic Russiaphobia. duh..there are ways to manage beyond "trust"

The investigation(s) center on "Russian Collusion" -there has not been any evidence -
even the testimonies say that.

Doe that mean that Flynn wasn't corrupt,or some guys had Russian banking ties -or like Manafort was a Ukrainian foreign agent?
So what?

none of that changes he fact the US/Russia are standing off over Europe. the number 1 and 2 military powers
are in a dangerous hostile relationship "the worst ever" according to both Putin and Trump..

We are pouring more and more men and material into Europe -expanding our deployments,
and putting up more and more redundant weapons systems..and its NOT making either of us any safer

It's just making John McCain more hungry for more
( he wants yet more money-$30b/year- for defense over the Trump increases) and it's fooling you and the Russiaphobes that this is money well spent.

"Trust but verify" (Reagan) is the way to go with Putin. More verifying then any trust actually.
We can make agreements,and easily verify

:rofl2: :rofl2:
 
Merkel of course has an interest in NATO expansion, and weapons
++
ROFL @ "Hoover Institution look at it's alumi! a bastion of neocons and "human righters"


it's short sighted.it says Putin can only govern by confrontation..
Suppose the sanctions were liftedd and the Russian economy showed real growth?
do you not think that would keep Putin in power also?
++
*Simplistic rubbish by a neo-con institution*

Putin governs by confrontation .. and you don't know that. :0)

.. so much for your great geopolitical 'wisdom.'
 
Putin governs by confrontation .. and you don't know that. :0)

.. so much for your great geopolitical 'wisdom.'
I can say with absolute certainty that in the 80s you would have accused the US of confronting the USSR, that was the given stance for the far Left in those days. I fell out with a long standing friend for many years over his dogged defence of the Soviet shooting down of KAL 007.

Sent from my iPhone 25 GT Turbo
 
Putin governs by confrontation .. and you don't know that. :0)

.. so much for your great geopolitical 'wisdom.'
it's confrontation because the economy stinks ( althugh showing some signs of improvement).

sanction and more importantly oil prices have hurt Russia which is mostly an "extractive economy"

A resource-based economy, dependent on harvesting or extracting natural resources for sale or trade., harvesting and exporting resources with little or no processing.
If Putin's economy showed improvement - by oil prices or negotiations -would that not improve Putin's standing with his people? Of course.
And then the over-reliance on pure confrontationalism would also be mitigated..

you need to think these things through,and not fixate on relations as fixed/unchanging.
they are always dynamic, not matter how static they appear in a snapshot.
 
I can say with absolute certainty that in the 80s you would have accused the US of confronting the USSR, that was the given stance for the far Left in those days. I fell out with a long standing friend for many years over his dogged defence of the Soviet shooting down of KAL 007.

Sent from my iPhone 25 GT Turbo
excellent point. Under the USSR the American left drove the idea
that US/Russian relations were mallable to negotiations,while the inevitable escalation of the Cold War was a RW ruse.
 
excellent point. Under the USSR the American left drove the idea
that US/Russian relations were mallable to negotiations,while the inevitable escalation of the Cold War was a RW ruse.

What are you talking about?? I have not heard a single person anywhere, at any time say we shouldn't negotiate with Russia where we have mutual self-interests.

The issue before us is Kremlin stooges like you and other Drumpf fan boys saying that America is to blame for Russian invading Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine. That does not even pass the laugh test, and I actually feel stupider for having read this kind of insidious Kremlin propaganda on an American political message board.
 
people are complex. He was a war criminal in Vietnam. I was protesting that damn war in the streets before you were born/
But that doesn't diminish the real value of realpolitik -what my sig quote refers to

I find it hilarious that Kissinger refers to a 'demonization' of Vladimir Putin -- as if his actions in Russia ALONE would be acceptable if not for people 'demonizing' him.
 
What are you talking about?? I have not heard a single person anywhere, at any time say we shouldn't negotiate with Russia where we have mutual self-interests.

The issue before us is Kremlin stooges like you and other Drumpf fan boys saying that America is to blame for Russian invading Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine. That does not even pass the laugh test, and I actually feel stupider for having read this kind of insidious Kremlin propaganda on an American political message board.
nobody said it's completely NATO's fault. NATO expansion is stressed as the underlying condition that has literraly surrounded Putin.
NATO expansionism has ratcheted up tensions with Russia, instead of finding a detente settling of tensions.

The Ukraine security - was negotiated by the Budapest Memorandum.
"it was a guarantee to respect the independence and sovereignty and existing borders of Ukraine”

what you fail to comprehend despite being shown over and over is that the US violated that agreement
with it's undermining of the agreement by US meddling in the Uk's Euromaiden .

With the new government openly hostile to Putin ( threatening his access to Sevastopol) is it any wonder he resorted to "Little Green men? did you want him to just hope for access to the Black Sea by his navy?

Georgia was much the same,without US meddling; Georgia's push to receive a NATO Membership Action Plan -
although it's far more complicated then i care to delve into here.
++
The other point is here are no negotiations pending to resolve ANY of the outstanding issues between the US/Russia
because of the US political hysteria swept up by US Russiaphobia
 
Maybe if Putin would stop trying to militarily enforce his version of Russia on nations that don't want anything to do with him, there would be no NATO resistance. Maybe if Russia would become a decent actor on the world stage, instead of trying to rebuild the Soviet Union, Putin wouldn't feel pressure from NATO. Maybe if Putin would stop being a KGB thug who murders political opponents, people wouldn't "demonize" him.

Fucking Putin sympathizing human trash.
 
I'm curious did anyone find or even define the 'deep state'? post # ?

Not sure. But whenever someone references the 'Deep State' in a serious way, my respect for them immediately drops to zero. I put them in the category of 9/11 truthers, birthers, and people who think the government is run by alien lizards. These are not people who should be taken seriously.
 
Not sure. But whenever someone references the 'Deep State' in a serious way, my respect for them immediately drops to zero. I put them in the category of 9/11 truthers, birthers, and people who think the government is run by alien lizards. These are not people who should be taken seriously.

That seems to be the case, I did find this piece.

"It is understandable that persons with some actual knowledge of current events and the workings of government would be exasperated by the feverish outpourings of Breitbart.com, or Fox News’s Andrew (“Judge”) Napolitano, who depict Trump and his recently fired national security adviser, General Mike Flynn, as poor, innocent snowflakes beset by the remorseless conspiracies of a shadow government. (The Trump administration even had to issue a rare apology to the British government when press secretary Sean Spicer repeated Napolitano’s false allegation that the United Kingdom’s intelligence service spied on Trump)."

http://lobelog.com/yes-there-is-a-deep-state-but-not-the-right-wings-caricature/
 
I'm curious did anyone find or even define the 'deep state'? post # ?

The deep state is any Black person or woman still working in the whitehouse that President Obama appointed or that worked for Clinton.

The cowardly right wing nut jobs just wont admit it.

Every post about the "deep state" blames a Black person or a woman from the left, or John MCain.............see for yourself.
 
Maybe if Putin would stop trying to militarily enforce his version of Russia on nations that don't want anything to do with him, there would be no NATO resistance. Maybe if Russia would become a decent actor on the world stage, instead of trying to rebuild the Soviet Union, Putin wouldn't feel pressure from NATO. Maybe if Putin would stop being a KGB thug who murders political opponents, people wouldn't "demonize" him.

Fucking Putin sympathizing human trash.
NATO doesn't "resist" it expands for no real reason except it could after the collapse of the USSR.
Maybe if we stopped looking at Russia thru mono-polarism where only the west's security concerns are valid
Putin wouldn't need to push back for it's own equally valid security needs.
 
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