The Confederate origins of Memorial Day

Buckly J. Ewer said:
Nothing...
You have nothing...
You are retarded and you know nothing whatsoever of history.
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I teach classes on the civil war goofy,
So go Google what I know.
then come back with a question, that's what I tell my children

Your racist rants about the civil war tell me you have never read anything on the subject.
But you're probably a white guy, uneducated and really the civil war should mean nothing to you, so it's all good.

But people like blackascoal should be ashamed of themselves that all they know of that war is rednecks from Alabama fly the confederate flag so white people are racists.
It's pathetic to live ones life uneducated on subjects you choose to opine on.

granted you can't know everything, so stay out of conversations you know nothing about, a good life lesson
 
Getin the ring said:
I teach classes on the civil war goofy,
So go Google what I know.
then come back with a question, that's what I tell my children

Your racist rants about the civil war tell me you have never read anything on the subject.
But you're probably a white guy, uneducated and really the civil war should mean nothing to you, so it's all good.

But people like blackascoal should be ashamed of themselves that all they know of that war is rednecks from Alabama fly the confederate flag so white people are racists.
It's pathetic to live ones life uneducated on subjects you choose to opine on.

granted you can't know everything, so stay out of conversations you know nothing about, a good life lesson
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If racist white rednecks from Alabama didn't choose to fly the canton of the CSA flag, it would still be wrong and unpatriotic to do so.
 
I suggest you read a good book on the events leading up to the Civil War.
the Southern states were more right than they were wrong.

The issue of slavery was of course wrong, but had very little to do with why the Southerners were willing to fight their brothers to the North.

Seriously, It is an epic subject of a United Nation being torn apart by so many issues both economic and political. I would suggest anyone still holding this crazy view that the confederate flag, or the monuments scattered throughout the south simply mean they are racists, or celebrating racism. Because that's just ludicrous.
 
Getin the ring said:
I suggest you read a good book on the events leading up to the Civil War.
the Southern states were more right than they were wrong.

The issue of slavery was of course wrong, but had very little to do with why the Southerners were willing to fight their brothers to the North.

Seriously, It is an epic subject of a United Nation being torn apart by so many issues both economic and political. I would suggest anyone still holding this crazy view that the confederate flag, or the monuments scattered throughout the south simply mean they are racists, or celebrating racism. Because that's just ludicrous.
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ironically it would be the north who was very protectionist / nationalist at that time while the south was for free trade because of cotton being sold in european markets.

democrats= confederacy? :o
 
yes, until selling southern picked cotton at a bargain to the Europeans became convenient as a way to bankrupt the south who relied on that income.

The South had no choice but to stand up to the thievery of financing the industrial North at the expense of Southern labor.
Cotton was the cash crop, Ending slavery basically meant the south now had to pay their help without raising the cost of producing the crop.
Southern farmers were all for freeing the slaves and tried to convey to Lincoln that now they would be employing them, and thereby have to raise the price for the crop.
And incidently not only would they now be paying the help but the help will now need to pay for their food and housing. Most slaves knew nothing but working the farms.
They would now need education, and every other right of free men, and these things need financing.

The North was so engulfed in their carpetbagging ways, the message was basically just shut up, keep picking cotton and keep sending us the profits from the European cotton markets. And by the way you no longer own your help, figure it out.
Which set up an unsustainable situation, so the Southern states basically said we are leaving the union and forming our own. Which will include us dealing directly with Europe in the cotton market. And that sucession from the Union including freeing the slaves.

So to say the North was simply fighting for freeing the slaves, and the South was simply fighting to keep slavery alive is just not understanding what really happened.
 
Getin the ring said:
I suggest you read a good book on the events leading up to the Civil War.
the Southern states were more right than they were wrong.

The issue of slavery was of course wrong, but had very little to do with why the Southerners were willing to fight their brothers to the North.

Seriously, It is an epic subject of a United Nation being torn apart by so many issues both economic and political. I would suggest anyone still holding this crazy view that the confederate flag, or the monuments scattered throughout the south simply mean they are racists, or celebrating racism. Because that's just ludicrous.
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"Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

-Alexander Stephens
 
Buckly J. Ewer said:
Not even close, retard.
Ripping down the statues honoring the treacherous racists is akin to ripping down Hitler statues
The history remains...History books will remain full of the failures of racists and traitors ...
The modern salutes to treachery and racism are being erased.
As they should be.
BTW... Fuck you.
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Well said.
 
Getin the ring said:
I suggest you read a good book on the events leading up to the Civil War.
the Southern states were more right than they were wrong.

The issue of slavery was of course wrong, but had very little to do with why the Southerners were willing to fight their brothers to the North.

Seriously, It is an epic subject of a United Nation being torn apart by so many issues both economic and political. I would suggest anyone still holding this crazy view that the confederate flag, or the monuments scattered throughout the south simply mean they are racists, or celebrating racism. Because that's just ludicrous.
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yep.not to minimize slavery, but the causes were complex,and the monuments to the soldiers are just that.
It kina reminds me of the war on free speech going on at the universities -not exact, but kina.

It's best to counter an argument ( historical perspective) then censor it
 
If you haven't been to battlefields -and Gettysburg is the best example- and read and digested the monuments on all sides of the conflicts, you really are not getting the perspective of the original events on the ground
 
anatta said:
yep.not to minimize slavery, but the causes were complex,and the monuments to the soldiers are just that.
It kina reminds me of the war on free speech going on at the universities -not exact, but kina.

It's best to counter an argument ( historical perspective) then censor it
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Whether or not you believe that the fighting itself was related to slavery, the very purpose of secession, and primary reason for the existence of the CSA as a nation, was slavery. Frankly, I find the treason and the arguments for secession, as well as the attack on America, all to be far more damning than slavery in the south.
 
anatta said:
yep.not to minimize slavery, but the causes were complex,and the monuments to the soldiers are just that.
It kina reminds me of the war on free speech going on at the universities -not exact, but kina.

It's best to counter an argument ( historical perspective) then censor it
Click to expand...

Who is censoring the truth?

Traitors don't deserve monuments. Evil doesn't deserve a monument.

Future generations of Americans will know the south and confederacy for the evil they were .. no differently than Hitler and the Nazis.

At least Germany had the decency and humanity to rid itself of the symbols and stench of its evil past .. we're just catching up.
 
blackascoal said:
Who is censoring the truth?

Traitors don't deserve monuments. Evil doesn't deserve a monument.

Future generations of Americans will know the south and confederacy for the evil they were .. no differently than Hitler and the Nazis.

At least Germany had the decency and humanity to rid itself of the symbols and stench of its evil past .. we're just catching up.
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ridiculous. Nazis exterminated millions on a whim of Hitler.
Slavery was evil, but at the time of the founders not all that unordinary.
Besides as noted it wasn't all about slavery..The south needed to move past slavery, and that was it's evil too at the time of the Civil war. They lost the war, and paid the price for not doing so
But the north was happy to use it's leverage over the south...regionalism got so bad...there it sparked.

One of the lessons I took from the war, and one I continuously espouse is the evils of regionalism.
It's directly opposed to E Pluribus Unum -our national motto.

The battlefields didn't know slavery or even regionalism .The men mostly fought for their state -
that was the allegiance. They should be honored ( as in remembered ) for their courage.

I do not support stautes to Jefferson Davis, or the crap in New Orleans about keeping black people from voting.
But removal of monuments to Robert E. Lee -who was a great American before the civil war,
and afterwards too are not the same thing.

Some of this stuff does need to go, but not pure history..
When a society purges it's history it dumbs itself down..better to learn the lessons of history.
 
Indeed, FASCISM begins by the attempt to change history and destroy any and all documentation of that history....All fascist nations began by destroying any symbolism of its past history, they destroy books that contain the actual history, they attempt to disarm the citizens by claiming its for their own good, they take over the banking systems, the health industry, the education system and the free press and make it a propaganda arm of the fascist state. SOUND FAMILIAR?

Question? What would the press have done....IF.....the bloody head of Barry Obama was being held up by a hooded member of the KK little k? What's the difference between Trump and Obama...none, the promotion of violence and fascism is coming from the LEFT in this nation, along with HATE SPEECH and HATE CRIMES. Just read the hate and bigotry spewing from the idiots on the left in this thread alone.

And FYI: If winning a war is measured by comparing KIA.....the north lost far more troops due to the idiocy of its incompetent military leadership than did the south Southern KIA combat deaths 95000, Northern KIA combat deaths 110,000. Deaths other than actual combat South: 165000 North: over 250000.

Its historical truth such as this that will not be found or spoken of by any propagandist. Nor will they mention the historical fact that the RULE OF LAW standard (the constitution, bill of rights, etc.) was generated by majority by southern politicians. Nor the FACT that slavery existed only because the majority of the American Citizens wanted it to exist....to include several states that fought on the northern side in that 2nd revolution.
 
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anatta said:
ridiculous. Nazis exterminated millions on a whim of Hitler.
Slavery was evil, but at the time of the founders not all that unordinary.
Besides as noted it wasn't all about slavery..The south needed to move past slavery, and that was it's evil too at the time of the Civil war. They lost the war, and paid the price for not doing so
But the north was happy to use it's leverage over the south...regionalism got so bad...there it sparked.

One of the lessons I took from the war, and one I continuously espouse is the evils of regionalism.
It's directly opposed to E Pluribus Unum -our national motto.

The battlefields didn't know slavery or even regionalism .The men mostly fought for their state -
that was the allegiance. They should be honored ( as in remembered ) for their courage.

I do not support stautes to Jefferson Davis, or the crap in New Orleans about keeping black people from voting.
But removal of monuments to Robert E. Lee -who was a great American before the civil war,
and afterwards too are not the same thing.

Some of this stuff does need to go, but not pure history..
When a society purges it's history it dumbs itself down..better to learn the lessons of history.
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Maybe you just don't know anything about the Middle Passage and the MILLIONS of dead bodies that line it.

Maybe you just don't know anything about the conditions and horrors that slaves had to endure in route to the horrors of America.

What slaver America did to the slaves was every bit as evil and demonic as what the Nazis did to the Jews.

I ask you again, who is attempting to censor the truth about the south and slavery? Removing false monuments does not censor the truth. It tells the truth of those who participated in evil and treason. That may not be your 'truth' .. but it is truth regardless of what you think .. AND, it is a truth that will reshape future generations.

Tell the truth of the Alamo. It wasn't a heroic battle for freedom, it was a fight to defend slavery. What does that make Davy Crockett?

Truth .. you don't have to like it.
 
blackascoal said:
Maybe you just don't know anything about the Middle Passage and the MILLIONS of dead bodies that line it.

Maybe you just don't know anything about the conditions and horrors that slaves had to endure in route to the horrors of America.

What slaver America did to the slaves was every bit as evil and demonic as what the Nazis did to the Jews.

I ask you again, who is attempting to censor the truth about the south and slavery? Removing false monuments does not censor the truth. It tells the truth of those who participated in evil and treason. That may not be your 'truth' .. but it is truth regardless of what you think .. AND, it is a truth that will reshape future generations.

Tell the truth of the Alamo. It wasn't a heroic battle for freedom, it was a fight to defend slavery. What does that make Davy Crockett?

Truth .. you don't have to like it.
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the point was the jews extermination was on a whim of Hitler's and slavery was institutionalized by our founders.
Both were evil, the fact the south used slave labor was at least explanatory, if not excusable..

Telling me about "false history" while removing Confederate monuments to real live actual soldiers is an oxymoron.

Everything I've read about Robert E Lee shows he was a great man.
He was offered control of the union army (of the Potomac),but had to turn it down because of his ties to Virginia.
But he was honorable, and surrendered in an honorable fashion.

Yet he is demonized by the revisionists. He's treated the same as Jefferson Davis ( a scurrilous politician),
and in New Orleans and increasingly elsewhere is brought down.
As I mentioned many of those monuments
are indeed "false" - monuments to disenfranchisement , or Jim Crow. They should go.

But this mindless purging of everything because it's southern or Confederate is a disservice to history,
under the guise of mindless charges of "racism"..I mean do you want to remove Washington references because he had slaves too? That's the logic of your position.

It's better to learn the nuances of our history, who we are -warts and all,and what is worth memorializing
and what is just trash.
Mindless removal doesn't allow for that distinction- as we purge like some kind of Stalinism
 
anatta said:
the point was the jews extermination was on a whim of Hitler's and slavery was institutionalized by our founders.
Both were evil, the fact the south used slave labor was at least explanatory, if not excusable..

Telling me about "false history" while removing Confederate monuments to real live actual soldiers is an oxymoron.

Everything I've read about Robert E Lee shows he was a great man.
He was offered control of the union army (of the Potomac),but had to turn it down because of his ties to Virginia.
But he was honorable, and surrendered in an honorable fashion.

Yet he is demonized by the revisionists. He's treated the same as Jefferson Davis ( a scurrilous politician),
and in New Orleans and increasingly elsewhere is brought down.
As I mentioned many of those monuments
are indeed "false" - monuments to disenfranchisement , or Jim Crow. They should go.

But this mindless purging of everything because it's southern or Confederate is a disservice to history,
under the guise of mindless charges of "racism"..I mean do you want to remove Washington references because he had slaves too? That's the logic of your position.

It's better to learn the nuances of our history, who we are -warts and all,and what is worth memorializing
and what is just trash.
Mindless removal doesn't allow for that distinction- as we purge like some kind of Stalinism
Click to expand...

You keep making the same false argument. Removing monuments to evil men is not a disservice to history. Monuments to slavery is the disservice to history and this nation .. keeping them would be.

We could go back and forth, round and round about this, but the reality remains the same .. those monuments will continue to end up in the garbage. Those 'great men' as you call them will continue to be redefined as monsters, as will the monsters who support them.

History, not His-story.

There is nothing you can do about it.
 
anatta said:
ridiculous. Nazis exterminated millions on a whim of Hitler.
Slavery was evil, but at the time of the founders not all that unordinary.
Besides as noted it wasn't all about slavery..The south needed to move past slavery, and that was it's evil too at the time of the Civil war. They lost the war, and paid the price for not doing so
But the north was happy to use it's leverage over the south...regionalism got so bad...there it sparked.

One of the lessons I took from the war, and one I continuously espouse is the evils of regionalism.
It's directly opposed to E Pluribus Unum -our national motto.

The battlefields didn't know slavery or even regionalism .The men mostly fought for their state -
that was the allegiance. They should be honored ( as in remembered ) for their courage.

I do not support stautes to Jefferson Davis, or the crap in New Orleans about keeping black people from voting.
But removal of monuments to Robert E. Lee -who was a great American before the civil war,
and afterwards too are not the same thing.

Some of this stuff does need to go, but not pure history..
When a society purges it's history it dumbs itself down..better to learn the lessons of history.
Click to expand...

The north finally got the upper hand with regard to regionalism, but, the south had been hammering it hard for decades prior to the war. It was blocking all sorts of initiatives, such as the transcontinental railroad and homesteading. It was interfering in places it didn't belong, such as the organization of the Kansas territory.
 
Getin the ring said:
Ripping down Civil war monuments, trying to erase history is akin to ripping down the concentration camps memorials in Poland.
Instead of using them as teaching moments at the reality of actual events in history, The PC police think acting like they never happened, ripping out any reminders will send this message to the very small group of
people that may hold theses monuments as their badge of racism honor.

The civil war was fought for many reasons, the least of which was racism.
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How is removing monuments of men responsible hundreds of thousands of American lives lost trying to change history?

They should HAVE NEVER ALLOWED THOSE MONUMENTS TO TREASON IN THE FIRST PLACE..
 
Bill said:
How is removing monuments of men responsible hundreds of thousands of American lives lost trying to change history?

They should HAVE NEVER ALLOWED THOSE MONUMENTS TO TREASON IN THE FIRST PLACE..
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It wasn't treason when they did it dumbass.
 
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