49ers QB Colin Kaepernick refuses to stand for the national anthem

Zake said:
I see, so you're calling on my support for Trump to see Kaepernick's point of view? Actually, I don't support Trump. And that is one of the reasons. No one person is the difference between America being great and not being great
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And that's actually one of the very few things I do agree w/ Trump on.

The system IS rigged. It definitely favors the few over the many, whether we're talking about minorities, the poor, those seeking education or healthcare...whatever it is. Does it mean that America isn't a great country? No, but it is FAR from perfect, and the power of the individual is just about all we have when it comes to effecting change.

To say that those who have benefited should ignore our problems, or be "more respectful," or be happy w/ their lot & shut up - I don't get it. The only way America has gotten better in the past is by people expressing their dissatisfaction & desire to see things improve. Dissent, protest, action - these shouldn't be reserved only for those on the short-end of the stick.
 
Face said:
He has the right to say whatever he wants we as fans of football and our country have the right to demand he be benched until his contract is terminated.
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And there's that lol. You have to think there was some grimacing going on in the SF front office after Kaep made his political statement.

The US is such a racist ridden country that black athletes and entertainers become millionaires on the white majority's money.

Irony abounds.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
And there's that lol. You have to think there was some grimacing going on in the SF front office after Kaep made his political statement.

The US is such a racist ridden country that black athletes and entertainers become millionaires on the white majority's money.

Irony abounds.
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I just want to make sure that I understand this correctly. Are you saying that because some blacks are rich, racism no longer exists in America, or is a minor problem?
 
Thing1 said:
I just want to make sure that I understand this correctly. Are you saying that because some blacks are rich, racism no longer exists in America, or is a minor problem?
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That seems to be a common belief among Appalachian whites.

Fake said:
I don't think there's much racism on either side anymore. It's sad that the parties have to keep fighting about a non-issue when there are so many real issues to fight about. Sometimes I think that's why they want to fight about non-issues. Real issues are harder
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Thing1 said:
And that's actually one of the very few things I do agree w/ Trump on.

The system IS rigged. It definitely favors the few over the many, whether we're talking about minorities, the poor, those seeking education or healthcare...whatever it is. Does it mean that America isn't a great country? No, but it is FAR from perfect, and the power of the individual is just about all we have when it comes to effecting change.

To say that those who have benefited should ignore our problems, or be "more respectful," or be happy w/ their lot & shut up - I don't get it. The only way America has gotten better in the past is by people expressing their dissatisfaction & desire to see things improve. Dissent, protest, action - these shouldn't be reserved only for those on the short-end of the stick.
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Moving the goalposts. I was talking about America being great. You changed that to whether the "system is rigged" or not, they aren't synonymous
 
Thing1 said:
I just want to make sure that I understand this correctly. Are you saying that because some blacks are rich, racism no longer exists in America, or is a minor problem?
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The overwhelming percentage of Americans on both sides think that blacks should have equal access to jobs, homes and everything else. We are more peacefully diverse than pretty much any country on the planet, particularly one of our size
 
Zake said:
Moving the goalposts. I was talking about America being great. You changed that to whether the "system is rigged" or not, they aren't synonymous
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I don't see your point than. Is "America being great" some sort of prerequisite? Can people believe that America is great conceptually, but falls short in practice?
 
Zake said:
The overwhelming percentage of Americans on both sides think that blacks should have equal access to jobs, homes and everything else. We are more peacefully diverse than pretty much any country on the planet, particularly one of our size
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If the majority think that, why doesn't that scenario exist?

And PLEASE don't argue that everyone has equal access to jobs, homes & everything else.
 
Thing1 said:
I don't see your point than. Is "America being great" some sort of prerequisite? Can people believe that America is great conceptually, but falls short in practice?
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People can believe whatever they want to. I said what I believe. If you think Trump is the difference between America being great and not being great, fine, believe that. But I disagree with you about Trump and everyone else. No one person is the difference.

If you want to know if I think the system is rigged, ask me, don't tell me my position
 
Thing1 said:
If the majority think that, why doesn't that scenario exist?

And PLEASE don't argue that everyone has equal access to jobs, homes & everything else.
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The overwhelming majority do. We should deal with actual discrimination when it happens, not run around screaming racists are behind every tree. In fact that approach protects the real racists. Everyone is just growing numb to it
 
Zake said:
People can believe whatever they want to. I said what I believe. If you think Trump is the difference between America being great and not being great, fine, believe that. But I disagree with you about Trump and everyone else. No one person is the difference.

If you want to know if I think the system is rigged, ask me, don't tell me my position
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Well, THAT is a goalpost move. I never said or even implied that one person is the "difference." I simply think that everyone should be encouraged to do what they can individually to improve things. Who could oppose that idea?

In Kaep's case, it was sitting during the anthem. Say what you want about it; it got people talking. And that's probably what he wanted to do. And that, to me, is as American as apple pie.
 
Zake said:
The overwhelming majority do. We should deal with actual discrimination when it happens, not run around screaming racists are behind every tree. In fact that approach protects the real racists. Everyone is just growing numb to it
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No, the overwhelming majority do not.

This conversation is basically a non-starter if we disagree on that basic reality. I don't think America is anywhere near where you seem to think it is.
 
Zake said:
No one said that. I said it's odd that someone could hate a country as much as he hates the one that has treated him so well. I suppose it is easier for you though if you misrepresent what people said. It's a lot more work to refute the actual argument
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I'm sorry.

Where precisely, did Kaepernick indicate he "hates" America?
 
Thing1 said:
Well, THAT is a goalpost move. I never said or even implied that one person is the "difference." I simply think that everyone should be encouraged to do what they can individually to improve things. Who could oppose that idea?

In Kaep's case, it was sitting during the anthem. Say what you want about it; it got people talking. And that's probably what he wanted to do. And that, to me, is as American as apple pie.
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You sure indicated you were disagreeing with what I said. Now my thinking you were disagreeing with my post you said you disagreed with is "me" moving the goalposts? If you were trying to make a different point, here's how you do it.

I agree with you Zake, but here's another point on a related subject ...

See how that works?
 
Thing1 said:
I really don't. I think it's incredibly tone deaf. People don't check their intelligence at the door when they make a lot of money. If they see injustice, I sure hope they fight to end it, and that it's not just left to those on the receiving end of it to end it.
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For starters, it would help if the injustice weren't some nebulous abstraction. Back in the 60's there were concrete injustices blacks had to put up with and this country is light years beyond that.

And please don't start with the 'war on blacks' by white cops, unless you're willing to accept the total statistical picture. Blacks can and do climb the ladder in this country, we have a black president---and he got elected twice. There's black mayors and black cops, black local officials. In fact, they tend to run a lot of the problem urban areas.

The problem is the racial greviance industry will never be satisfied. The dirty little secret is they don't want to cure racism and when it doesn't exist, they conjure it up.

I call bull shit on it and them.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
I'm sorry.

Where precisely, did Kaepernick indicate he "hates" America?
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"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." He said he's doing it as a point. If you want to word parse and say he didn't say the clear implication of his statement, go for it. But don't expect anyone with a brain to believe you don't actually grasp the meaning of what he said. I love this country, it's been great to me. Perfect? No. But I'd never make a point to dis it like he did
 
Thing1 said:
No, the overwhelming majority do not.

This conversation is basically a non-starter if we disagree on that basic reality. I don't think America is anywhere near where you seem to think it is.
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Blacks can do anything they want, just like anyone else. It's not always easy, just like for everyone else
 
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