New Iraq report reminds us what a real issue is

Thing1 said:
Again, I'm not saying that it has no bearing, or that she isn't already a pretty weak candidate.

Listening to Trump & some other righties yesterday, I would have thought she was behind 9/11 or something. I just think this is completely overblown. Is it a consideration for voters? Sure. Like other SOS's, she used private email. She was also pretty careless about it. It was bad judgment.

But it wasn't intentional, or insidious, or traitorous. Ultimately, there is no damage to our national security that anyone has been able to identify. Just one of Bush's decisions in the Iraq War - disbanding their army - had enormous effects in terms of lives lost and instability caused, and it probably got about one news cycle. That's the point of the OP.
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Neither Trump nor Clinton currently hold elective office. How is comparing their behavior today ever going to match up to decisions Presidents make? That's totally apples and oranges.
 
cawacko said:
How many prior Presidential nominees have been under potential criminal review by the FBI? The whole point of a year long campaign to run for President is attempting to project how one will behave once in office. (Of course no one knows what they will actually do as President until they are in the office.) We know Hillary voted for this war and we know she has made extremely poor choices regarding potential national security risks with her email choice. How do those choices she made make her a good presidential candidate?
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I don't think she should have voted for the war, she should have been smarter and investigated much more closely. Liberals on this forum knew bush's rationale was bogus and we didn't even have all the info Congress did. But the fact is, bush lied and people fell for it hook, line and sinker. The whole idea of "imminent threat" was a ruse to sell the war to America. And I will never believe Congress had the same intel bush did, that's a crock.
 
Thing1 said:
I don't think she IS a good presidential candidate. You're talking about a separate question.

I do think this email story is completely overblown. If it's anyone but Hillary, it's probably a one news-cycle kind of story, and that's it.
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So, if it was anyone but Nixon, Watergate wouldn't be a by-word four decades later?
 
christiefan915 said:
I don't think she should have voted for the war, she should have been smarter and investigated much more closely. Liberals on this forum knew bush's rationale was bogus and we didn't even have all the info Congress did. But the fact is, bush lied and people fell for it hook, line and sinker. The whole idea of "imminent threat" was a ruse to sell the war to America. And I will never believe Congress had the same intel bush did, that's a crock.
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Hillary Clinton knew more about what was happening in Iraq than anyone in Congress. She saw all the intelligence her husband had for eight years. She was not in the blind to what was occurring. She knew she was going to run for President one day and made a calculated decision to vote they way she did.
 
cawacko said:
Hillary Clinton knew more about what was happening in Iraq than anyone in Congress. She saw all the intelligence her husband had for eight years. She was not in the blind to what was occurring. She knew she was going to run for President one day and made a calculated decision to vote they way she did.
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This is very true. No doubt it was a political calculation. I feel like her vote for the war should be talked about way more than this inconsequential email issue.
 
cawacko said:
Hillary Clinton knew more about what was happening in Iraq than anyone in Congress. She saw all the intelligence her husband had for eight years. She was not in the blind to what was occurring. She knew she was going to run for President one day and made a calculated decision to vote they way she did.
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I don't presume to know whether or not your last sentence is true and I think you're using 20-20 hindsight. Back in 2002 Hillary and the others who voted for the war were applauded by bush, his flunkies and ordinary Americans. I'd bet anything that the people excoriating her now spoke differently about her 14 years ago, when a large percentage of the population was in a rage to get back at the Muslims.
 
Thing1 said:
This is very true. No doubt it was a political calculation. I feel like her vote for the war should be talked about way more than this inconsequential email issue.
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Bernie spoke about it. His entire foreign policy was essentially "I didn't vote for the Iraq War and she did". It won him a little traction but clearly not enough.
 
christiefan915 said:
I don't presume to know whether or not your last sentence is true and I think you're using 20-20 hindsight. Back in 2002 Hillary and the others who voted for the war were applauded by bush, his flunkies and ordinary Americans. I'd bet anything that the people excoriating her now spoke differently about her 14 years ago, when a large percentage of the population was in a rage to get back at the Muslims.
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Obviously I can't prove what she was thinking at the time of her vote. But most people don't run for President on a whim. They think about it and plan for it. Hillary knew she was going to run one day. So with that in mind she had to weigh what this vote would mean for her future.
 
Thing1 said:
How many people died because of Hillary using private email? How many terrorist groups formed as a result?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/06/europe/uk-iraq-inquiry-chilcot-report/

"Chilcot said former British Prime Minister Tony Blair was warned of the risks of regional instability and the rise of terrorism before the invasion of Iraq, but pressed on regardless."
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Guess we'll never know.....probably until its too late.


Like we'll never really know why Bill Clinton and various other Democrats kept warning us about Saddam and WMD for 6 or 8 years either.
 
cawacko said:
Bernie spoke about it. His entire foreign policy was essentially "I didn't vote for the Iraq War and she did". It won him a little traction but clearly not enough.
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It got him no traction because Hillary supporters don't care about it. Well, they'll give lip service about caring but will vote for her anyway lol.

But the invasion of Iraq is history and not particularly relevant to this election: who even knows what Donald Rumsfield is doing and Bush The Hated has been retired for two presidential terms now.

What is relevant is what happened in the region after Obama was elected and HRC was appointed Sec State. The invasion of Libya was arguably more bone headed than the Iraq invasion, just on a smaller scale. But that has the disadvantage not providing fodder to trash conservatives while trying to deflect from Hillary getting off the hook.

The Obama administration dropping the ball on the SOFA agreement in Iraq; again with Hillary as Sec State, would be a more relevant OP if the point is to constrast 'real issues' with Hillary's extreme negligence in handling classified and top secret information---and getting away Scott free with it.
 
cawacko said:
Bernie spoke about it. His entire foreign policy was essentially "I didn't vote for the Iraq War and she did". It won him a little traction but clearly not enough.
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it won him support by thinking ( Bernie supporters)Democrats - not the Clintonistas.
In fact Bernie questioned her judgment not just because of Iraq - but because she did the same thing over Libya.
(and Syria)

Bernie isn't the best to attack Hillary; he shied off on the Emails despite her "extreme carelessness".
But he at least got the fact across that her judgment is whacked out neocon.
 
anatta said:
it won him support by thinking ( Bernie supporters)Democrats - not the Clintonistas.
In fact Bernie questioned her judgment not just because of Iraq - but because she did the same thing over Libya.
(and Syria)

Bernie isn't the best to attack Hillary; he shied off on the Emails despite her "extreme carelessness".
But he at least got the fact across that her judgment is whacked out neocon.
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I still can't get over Bernie giving her a pass on the emails during that one debate. I was like dude, what are you thinking lol.
 
Thing1 said:
Not at all. If there are threads about her war vote, I'll join in enthusiastically criticizing her for her expediency & part in that war. I've even started a few.

Just pointing out that this email thing is the classic tempest in a teacup. There just isn't any there there.
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Did you, by any chance, listen to the FBI dir. press conference ?

If so, you need someone to explain what he said to you.
 
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