Is Obama going to let Russia get away with the flybys?

anatta said:
wait a minute..doesnot anyone remember when the Baltic states were under Soviet occupation? THey are part of NATO
Russia is clearly the aggressor here.
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Absolutely false. Conducting war games in the vicinity of Kaliningrad is clearly a provocative measure.

Putin is pushing always and it going to continue -recall Crimea and the Ukraine..
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The current Ukrainian government is in power as the result of a COUP against the democratically-elected government of Ukraine. A coup supported by the West. That's a provocation.
All of Eastern Ukraine wanted to be part of Russia. Putin has declined to agree to that request.

As for Crimea, it was always part of Russia and its people voted overwhelmingly to return to Russian jurisdiction. Crimea only became associated with Ukraine as a result of a whim of Kruschev- himself a Ukrainian- who gifted Crimea to Ukraine, without consultation, at a meeting of the Supreme Soviet during which no legal quorum was present. It's also rumored that he was drunk.
Again, attempting to claim Crimea for the ' West ' is a provocation.

So get used to it, were in for a slog.
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The Russians could occupy all the Baltic states and NATO would be powerless to prevent it. The Russians do not do this because the Baltic states do not represent any threat to them. It is NATO which is the threat to them and NATO's continued goading - after going back on its agreements- is a provocation.
Remember, trying to operate an unnecessary military force half-way around the world is more taxing on the US economy than the Russian. How many trillions of dollars in debt is the US to date ?
The ' slog ' will be a lot shorter than you envisage.
 
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moon2012 said:
Absolutely false. Conducting war games in the vicinity of Kaliningrad is clearly a provocative measure.
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get out of here with that Russian expansionism..It's on the SW coast of Lithuania, and the exercises are partnering with Poland
where else would they be??



The current Ukrainian government is in power as the result of a COUP against the democratically-elected government of Ukraine. A coup supported by the West. That's a provocation.
All of Eastern Ukraine wanted to be part of Russia. Putin has declined to agree to that request.
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Putin has violated the territorial terms of the Budapest Resolution.
Granted bot the west and Russia meddle in the Ukraine..Russia sent in Spetsnaz troops without insignias ,and trucks without license plates
Why the secrecy? Because they were there to destabilize Donbass

As for Crimea, it was always part of Russia and its people voted overwhelmingly to return to Russian jurisdiction. Crimea only became associated with Ukraine as a result of a whim of Kruschev- himself a Ukrainian- who gifted Crimea to Ukraine, without consultation, at a meeting of the Supreme Soviet during which no legal quorum was present. It's also rumored that he was drunk.
Again, attempting to claim Crimea for the ' West ' is a provocation.
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LOL the vote was after the annexation - what legitimacy does that bring? 'drunk ' or not (interesting point) Crimea was ceded.
And there was the same operation of Spetsnaz and non-insignia shock troop and trucks
The Russians could occupy all the Baltic states and NATO would be powerless to prevent it. The Russians do not do this because the Baltic states do not represent any threat to them. It is NATO which is the threat to them and NATO's continued goading - after going back on its agreements- is a provocation.
Remember, trying to operate an unnecessary military force half-way around the world is more taxing on the US economy than the Russian. How many trillions of dollars in debt is the US to date ?
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it's part of the US burden to check the Russian Soviet Bear. You can't re-write history; the fact is the Russian policy under Putin is expansionism/land grabs. The Baltics freely joined NATO because of previous Soviet occupation. It is Putin who is trying to undermine
that relationship.
I have no problem with Russia in Syria -it's their client state, but there is no reason for confrontational fly bys and such by Putin
he's doing it for domestic political consumption,but he's playing a risky situation fly bys of 30 feet.

The ' slog ' will be a lot shorter than you envisage.
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Obama is leaving Office,and as much as I despise Hillary the day of an isolationist US POTUS are coming to an end. Clinton is not going to let Putin's sphere of influence expand to the west
 
Rana said:
Obama isn't a cowboy, he doesn't shot from the hip, I am sure he is consulting his experts, and there is a discussion with his military advisors as to what to do?
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They're telling him how much vaseline to put on his lips before kissing Russia's ass.
 
anatta said:
get out of here with that Russian expansionism..It's on the SW coast of Lithuania, and the exercises are partnering with Poland
where else would they be??



Putin has violated the territorial terms of the Budapest Resolution.
Granted bot the west and Russia meddle in the Ukraine..Russia sent in Spetsnaz troops without insignias ,and trucks without license plates
Why the secrecy? Because they were there to destabilize Donbass


LOL the vote was after the annexation - what legitimacy does that bring? 'drunk ' or not (interesting point) Crimea was ceded.
And there was the same operation of Spetsnaz and non-insignia shock troop and trucks
it's part of the US burden to check the Russian Soviet Bear. You can't re-write history; the fact is the Russian policy under Putin is expansionism/land grabs. The Baltics freely joined NATO because of previous Soviet occupation. It is Putin who is trying to undermine
that relationship.
I have no problem with Russia in Syria -it's their client state, but there is no reason for confrontational fly bys and such by Putin
he's doing it for domestic political consumption,but he's playing a risky situation fly bys of 30 feet.

Obama is leaving Office,and as much as I despise Hillary the day of an isolationist US POTUS are coming to an end. Clinton is not going to let Putin's sphere of influence expand to the west
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Propagandized deception- with a flourish of arrogant warmongering. Typical Republican horseshit, in fact.


On Monday, the Cook was preparing to conduct helicopter flight operations in the Baltic Sea, in international water 70 miles off the coast of the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad.

Konashenkov claimed that the ministry was baffled by what he described as the "distressed reaction of our American counterparts."

"The principle of freedom of navigation for the U.S. destroyer, which is staying in close proximity to a Russian naval base in the Baltic Sea, does at all not cancel the principle of freedom of flight for Russian aircraft," Konashenkov said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-denies-simulate-attack-on-u-s-navy-destroyer-uss-donald-cook/
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Imagine the reaction to Russian warships just 70 miles off the US coast- and practicing war games.
 
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moon2012 said:
Propagandized deception- with a flourish of arrogant warmongering. Typical Republican horseshit, in fact.




Imagine the reaction to Russian warships just 70 miles off the US coast- and practicing war games.
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LOL..we had Russian warships in communist Cuban harbors - 90 miles -does that count? did we do reckless fly by's (no)..

Russia has only itself to blame for NATO expansion in the Baltics...on the other hand mindless expansion in to..say Georgia is a bad idea.

Look at this thru the prism of recent history -the eastern European countries had due cause to line up under NATO..
 
Konono said:
Typical silly hysteria. So Obama should do nothing?
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Is it really a crime to fly close to one of our ships?

What do you think the United States should do? Shoot down the plane? Go to war? Ignoring the silly shit would be the biggest insult to Putin who is simply trying to provoke a response.



You silly people get upset when Iraq holds our sailors overnight when they are captured inside Iran, but when Russia does this, you want to react the same way... hypocrisy.
 
anatta said:
LOL..we had Russian warships in communist Cuban harbors - 90 miles -does that count? did we do reckless fly by's (no)..

Russia has only itself to blame for NATO expansion in the Baltics...on the other hand mindless expansion in to..say Georgia is a bad idea.

Look at this thru the prism of recent history -the eastern European countries had due cause to line up under NATO..
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That's in very recent history- 2002 to be exact- and you're careful not to mention that the Russians allowed it.


And who really won the Cold War ?

Check out Russian and American debt;

world-debt-60-trillion-infographic.jpg
 
moon2012 said:
That's in very recent history- 2002 to be exact- and you're careful not to mention that the Russians allowed it.
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NATO costs are another topic.. yes the Europeans need to kick in more, but the alliance is too important
to fracture over costs.
One thing I criticized the Obama adm was it's "Russian reset" when in reality it never took Russia's strategic interests into play.
It was a fake Hillary play.
But Putin has been bellicose -playing n nationalism that somehow Russia has been burned - i'm sympathetic - but not willing to overlook history
 
Jarod said:
Is it really a crime to fly close to one of our ships?

What do you think the United States should do? Shoot down the plane? Go to war? Ignoring the silly shit would be the biggest insult to Putin who is simply trying to provoke a response.



You silly people get upset when Iraq holds our sailors overnight when they are captured inside Iran, but when Russia does this, you want to react the same way... hypocrisy.
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So you're willing to cowardly kiss Russia's ass? That means you and Obama have something in common.
 
iolo said:
No -threatened a World War, and had to get your rockets out of Turkey.
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that was the Cuban missile crisis - in exchange for Russian removing missiles fromCuba.
I'm talking about routine Russian warships coming to Cuba since then. We never did stupid things like "fly bys" ( to my knowledge at least)
that accomplished nothing but put the crew and ships in danger.

It was a Putin stunt. Nothing to go to war about, but it was sheer reckless behavior on the part of Putin.
 
anatta said:
It was a Putin stunt. Nothing to go to war about, but it was sheer reckless behavior on the part of Putin.
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You think ? There can't be a sailor on that ship who doesn't wonder who was the moron that ordered them there in the first place. And it made WORLDWIDE news. Too bad for the sneakies.
 
moon2012 said:
You think ? There can't be a sailor on that ship who doesn't wonder who was the moron that ordered them there in the first place. And it made WORLDWIDE news. Too bad for the sneakies.
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it was long scheduled NATO exercises with Poland ,That's what navys DO -they conduct joint exercises...
The Cook, a ballistic missile-defense destroyer, was patrolling and conducing helicopter exercises with Poland and other U.S. partners in the southwestern Baltic Sea, after a port visit in Poland on Sunday.

A U.S. official said the Cook was operating in international waters
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Yes it made world wide news; because of the Putin stunt.
 
anatta said:
it was long scheduled NATO exercises with Poland ,That's what navys DO -they conduct joint exercises...
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They're obviously very unwise to conduct them off Kaliningrad

Yes it made world wide news; because of the Putin stunt.
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Precisely. Another victory for Putin. The world sees NATO as prodding the bear in its own lair.
 
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