Ex-IRA commander Martin McGuinness WILL be a guest of the Queen at Windsor Castle

Abraxas said:
Catholic priests, nuns and de Valera held the country back, if you went to Ireland and ask they will tell you that is true. I went to a primary school run by psychotic Irish nuns in England so I know what I am talking about, they would all be locked up today for what they did to the kids.
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Eamon De Valera is hero to all humanity, not just the Irish. His praises shall be sang through out the ages.
 
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Abraxas said:
Amongst other reasons, it wasn't the bucolic paradise created by Irish mythmakers and sold to ignorant Americans.
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But you're the only one who brought this notion up. Over and over and over.

If you keep insisting "I never go down to the waterfront and perform fellatio on transient sailors!" unsolicited in a conversation, over and over and over, eventually someone is going to say "Hey! Wait a minute!"
 
Taft2016 said:
But you're the only one who brought this notion up. Over and over and over.

If you keep insisting "I never go down to the waterfront and perform fellatio on transient sailors!" unsolicited in a conversation, over and over and over, eventually someone is going to say "Hey! Wait a minute!"
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Give me a break, you are the one that brought up crap like redcoats and colonialism. Unfortunately you are like so many Irish Americans that cannot tell myth from fact.
 
Abraxas said:
To show what a primitive and disgusting country it was back then, that sort of shit was still going on into the '80s.
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Well, your own article starts out:

Across Britain and Ireland lie thousands of unmarked mass graves
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On one hand you bemoan the lack of abortions, and then on the other your worry about the after-life status of stillborn children?
 
Abraxas said:
Give me a break, you are the one that brought up crap like redcoats and colonialism. Unfortunately you are like so many Irish Americans that cannot tell myth from fact.
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I don't get it. Is "redcoats and colonialism" codespeak for "Ireland is a bucolic paradise"?

Maybe the Irish Board of Tourism should adopt it as a slogan?
 
Abraxas said:
Yes they were Irish Catholics living in Britain that did that, old habits die hard.
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The running undercurrent here Tom, is not Irish Republicanism, Ulster self-determination, unionism, or loyalism.

It's really becoming apparent that the thread running all through it is your anti-Catholicism.
 
Patrick Pearse said:
Eamon De Valera is hero to all humanity, not just the Irish. His praises shall be sang through out the ages.
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De Valera is just further evidence that George Washington was the exception, not the rule.

Great revolutionary leaders rarely make great national leaders.
 
Taft2016 said:
The running undercurrent here Tom, is not Irish Republicanism, Ulster self-determination, unionism, or loyalism.

It's really becoming apparent that the thread running all through it is your anti-Catholicism.
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Crap I was born a Catholic, you seem to want to believe in myths whilst I present the realities.
 
Patrick Pearse said:
The thoughts of traitors are irrelevant to me.
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Well, on all the evidence, the 'traitors' hugely outnumbered the Republicans, and only the lunatic behaviour of the English military bullyboys changed opinion. You can always rely on the English right, fortunately, though it did put a cynical papist phoney like DeValera in power, to destroy a great culture with censorship and tedium.
 
iolo said:
Well, on all the evidence, the 'traitors' hugely outnumbered the Republicans, and only the lunatic behaviour of the English military bullyboys changed opinion. You can always rely on the English right, fortunately, though it did put a cynical papist phoney like DeValera in power, to destroy a great culture with censorship and tedium.
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Eamon de Valera was the worst thing that ever happened to Ireland, he was an ignorant American who had a pathological hatred of the British. To sign the condolence book for Hitler and allow a German embassy in Dublin throughout the war tells you all you need to know about his personality. After the war, he deliberately kept it in a state of religious backwardness, anybody that really knows anything knows this is true. He created a cult of personality akin to that of Franco and used the Catholic church to keep the Irish in their place.

In many trips to the US, de Valera's rags to riches story and self-mythologizing captured the imagination of the Irish American population, where he was viewed as a hero. Beloved by the earlier generations of Irish immigrants, support for de Valera was as strong, and at some points stronger, than it was in his own country. But among the recent immigrants from Ireland, de Valera is looked upon as more a villain than as a hero. To many, his ruinous economic plans and the ways in which he kept Ireland yoked to "Mother Church" are the very reasons they sought refuge in the United States. De Valera's rule, even today, 20 years after his death, still has its effect on Ireland. Coogan captures the sharp conflict between the two perceptions in EAMON DE VALERA.

Throughout EAMON DE VALERA, all the questions and controversies of modern Irish history are raised. De Valera's name is so entwined with the history of Ireland that an examination of his life includes tales of civil war, the evolution of today's Irish political system, and his creation of today's Irish Constitution. Ireland's long struggle to independence, the vast emigration that has drained the country of their population, the hold the Church has had on Irish society, and the development of Ireland as a nation are all bound up with the story of de Valera. Coogan, the sharpest observer of the Irish political scene, deftly brings to life all these issues, and, in telling of de Valera's involvement, brings a new perspective to the familiar, often unanswerable questions and situations. He looks at as well as beyond the legends and myths of de Valera, to deliver this exhaustive and eloquent chronicle of one of the most fascinating figures of the Twentieth Century.

EDITOR'S NOTE

Tim Pat Coogan is one of the best known figures in Ireland. Author, broadcaster, and former editor of the Irish Press, he has written several books, including The IRA, the definitive work on the subject, and the Man Who Made Ireland, a biography of Michael Collins, who is the subject of Oscar winner Neil Jordan's film starring Liam Neason.
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http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eamon+De+Valera:+The+Man+Who+Was+Ireland.-a016527589
 
Abraxas said:
Eamon de Valera was the worst thing that ever happened to Ireland, he was an ignorant American who had a pathological hatred of the British. To sign the condolence book for Hitler and allow a German embassy in Dublin throughout the war tells you all you need to know about his personality. After the war, he deliberately kept it in a state of religious backwardness, anybody that really knows anything knows this is true. He created a cult of personality akin to that of Franco and used the Catholic church to keep the Irish in their place.
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Other neutral nations did the same...

But I wonder if Iceland did? They declared neutrality during the war and guess who stormed in and occupied them?

Great Britain.

Churchill nearly strained himself patting himself on the back after the war, for showing restraint in not doing the same to Ireland:

"We never laid a violent hand on them, which at times would have been quite easy and quite natural."

Not just a hand... a VIOLENT hand....

Seriously, distilling the entire complexity of Irish neutrality down to the signing of a condolence book is very poor history.
 
Abraxas said:
EDITOR'S NOTE

Tim Pat Coogan is one of the best known figures in Ireland. Author, broadcaster, and former editor of the Irish Press, he has written several books, including The IRA, the definitive work on the subject, and the Man Who Made Ireland, a biography of Michael Collins, who is the subject of Oscar winner Neil Jordan's film starring Liam Neason.
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I'm shocked! A Michael Collins advocate is anti-De Valera?

:rolleyes:
 
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