At what point do you have a right to shoot someone dead?

Damocles said:
You should have a right to shoot if you believe that your life is threatened by another. It really is that simple.

Let's say some idiot had a replica gun that to all appearances was the real deal. If he pulled it and held it on you or your family threatening to shoot you do you have the right to shoot him? Of course you do. You may not have been in any danger, but how could any reasonable person say you should have known it was fake?

Some of your scenarios are silly, Jarod. Spilled soup? What reasonable person would believe their life was in danger from spilled soup? Even if it is hot she clearly wasn't trying to kill you.

Thrown popcorn... :dunno: it depends on how the guy was acting. Let's say he was moving towards my child while he threw popcorn... Do I have a right to protect her?
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What reasonable person would believe their life was in danger from spilled soup?

Maybe the same coward who perceived a threat from popcorn?

Even if the popcorn was hot, he CLEARLY wasn't trying to kill the coward with the gun.

Maybe the soup spiller was "moving towards your child" while he spilled the soup...you include these ridiculous caveats on your examples to try and justify your derisive response to jarod.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
See?

Here we go again.

Jarod is interested in maybe having a dialogue regarding some reasonable regulations, and he INSTANTLY gets shouted down by another angry gun nut for DARING to ask a question the gun nuts deem condescending.
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1) I'd like to thank you for the compliment Zap. I own no guns. I've held a gun once in my life. I'm 41 years old and have never been in a fight in my life because 1) I've never been in a situation where I had no other option but to fight and 2) I've been in many situations where I could have been in a fight but either talked my way out of it or talked other people down from fighting. I also said in the other thread that the ex-cop who shot the man was in the wrong. All that qualifies me to be a gun nut. That is awesome! I couldn't tell you the first thing about guns other than what I hear rappers speak about in their records but I am a gun nut. I rule!

2) Thanks for coming in with your analysis of the thread. With your post this thread is now 118 posts long. If I was trying to SHOUT Jarod down and end the discussion I didn't do a very good job. And yes asking would you shoot and kill a person who rang your door bell at 3am is a stupid fvcking question.
 
cawacko said:
1) I'd like to thank you for the compliment Zap. I own no guns. I've held a gun once in my life. I'm 41 years old and have never been in a fight in my life because 1) I've never been in a situation where I had no other option but to fight and 2) I've been in many situations where I could have been in a fight but either talked my way out of it or talked other people down from fighting. I also said in the other thread that the ex-cop who shot the man was in the wrong. All that qualifies me to be a gun nut. That is awesome! I couldn't tell you the first thing about guns other than what I hear rappers speak about in their records but I am a gun nut. I rule!

2) Thanks for coming in with your analysis of the thread. With your post this thread is now 118 posts long. If I was trying to SHOUT Jarod down and end the discussion I didn't do a very good job. And yes asking would you shoot and kill a person who rang your door bell at 3am is a stupid fvcking question.
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1. ANYONE who attempts to shut down dialogue regarding the 2nd amendment by condescendingly claiming the question is stupid, is indeed just another gun nut.

2. but your condescending response did indeed set the tone for the entire thread.

Jarod just wanted a dialogue, but I guess even that was just too much to ask eh?

All he got was more insults and derisive taunts.
 
Sardonic said:
Yes, Damo, hit him with your fist, it was what men did before they were feminized and had to use guns.
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Yeah, that's certainly not capable of killing anyone at all, or damaging their body for life.

I mean, who has ever died from a concussion?
 
ZappasGuitar said:
What reasonable person would believe their life was in danger from spilled soup?

Maybe the same coward who perceived a threat from popcorn?

Even if the popcorn was hot, he CLEARLY wasn't trying to kill the coward with the gun.

Maybe the soup spiller was "moving towards your child" while he spilled the soup...you include these ridiculous caveats on your examples to try and justify your derisive response to jarod.
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If the soup spiller was using the soup as a weapon and "moving toward my daughter"... then there is a difference between the stupid scenario Jarod pulled out of his hind quarters where the waitress simply spilled some soup.

The Popcorn Dude... I wouldn't pull a gun on him, but if he was moving towards my daughter while throwing stuff (even if it is popcorn) it is likely he'll meet me before he gets there. Now, what if I was a small woman who had somebody yelling, throwing popcorn, and threatening my daughter? Should I act the same way as I would as a healthy male, or would it be okay to you if I thought to pull a weapon of some kind to protect my daughter?
 
aeprga said:
So when confronted with deadly force you might run, freeze, or use deadly force of your own but when confronted with popcorn being tossed at you the response is to prepare to use deadly force? That makes a lot of sense.
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it's common sense that if someone has already assaulted you, that the probability of a follow up assault is high.

aeprga said:
Now, let's pretend that the popcorn thrower, like any good apple-pie eating American man, is also a big fan of exercising his 2nd Amendment rights. You've drawn your gun on him . . .
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since he initiated the violence, he would not be exercising LEGAL self defense. would he?
 
French 75 said:
Are to argue that a concussion isn't potentially lethal? Or that a permanently damaged sinus cavity isn't greater bodily harm? That a solid strike to the testicles can't result in them needing to be removed?
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I'm to argue that the reate of death/serious bodily harm resulting from being shot is slightly higher than the rate resulting from fisticuffs.
 
Jarod said:
Do you have an opinion on the late night door knocking, can you shoot at that point?
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I don't think having a door knocked warrants someone shooting. However, if I do not answer and you attempt to enter said locked door. I will blast you full of holes. It will be the last door you attempt to open without expressed permission.

This isn't hard. You are supposed to be smart
 
ZappasGuitar said:
He might if he too was a fellow gun nut constantly fearing for his life and just waiting for someone to look at him the wrong way so he would be justified in shooting him.
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you have this insane notion that people concerned about self defense are gun nut cowards intent on bullying people by carrying handguns in their open hands. you should see someone about your shitty logic
 
Or if you are Deshy Dearest you just hock a luger in their face. That apparently is the best self defense going. It stops big black scary guys in their tracks. Just ask her
 
Sardonic said:
Yes, Damo, hit him with your fist, it was what men did before they were feminized and had to use guns.
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Hit whom? The guy with the popcorn? Yup. That is likely what would happen if my presence didn't stop him from trying. It is escalating though. He "threw popcorn"... Same question for you as for Zappa, now what if I were a small woman who had some dude threatening, yelling, throwing popcorn and then moving toward my daughter? Would it be okay to you if I then pulled a weapon?

What if my mobility was hampered by a wheelchair? Should I just have to watch him assault my daughter or can I then have your blessing to use some force to stop him?

We know that the cops are "minutes away" but here seconds count. Do you think we should disarm a woman because she might protect her daughter with lethal force? The dude in the wheelchair? Me? Which do you think should not be allowed to defend themselves?
 
aeprga said:
I'm to argue that the reate of death/serious bodily harm resulting from being shot is slightly higher than the rate resulting from fisticuffs.
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of course you also have to take in to account what if the 'victor' of said manly contest of fisticuffs and bravery doesn't STOP hitting you in the head killing you
 
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