Britain and the U.S. could tap undreamed reserves of gas and oil

Mott the Hoople said:
Not really. He's actually quite right. It's the same thing as deep well injection. You're talking about materials nearly a mile underground and being capped by nearly a mile of impermeable rock. The risk to human exposure is minute to say the least. Hell it's one of the safest forms of land disposal there is, if not the safest. It's certainly superior to a subtitle C landfill which is pretty much the alternative.
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What the dumbos are incapable of understanding is that if the shale wasn't impermeable then there wouldn't be any gas there anyway, it would have escaped eons ago.
 
Should BP be allowed to frack on US soil, given their horrendous record?
 
Haiku said:
They would also fail the clean water act which is why Cheney made them exempt....this is a license to kill that profits a few, at the top.
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That's not exactly correct. Most of the exemptions for petroleum derived waste, produced waters, fugitive emissions, etc, date back to 1988 and the first Bush administration and keep in mind, he only signed those exemptions into law. It was Congress that created these exemptions and gave them the force of law.

Here's a good article, IMHO, that list the regulations from which fracking and the oil and gas industry are exempted and why these regulations should be enforced.

http://www.shalegas.energy.gov/resources/060211_earthworks_petroleumexemptions.pdf
 
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Haiku said:
This is exactly the kind of thinking that will doom us...why did Cheney have secret meetings with energy producers and write the law that ensures fracking is exempt from clean water laws if it's safe? They don't even have to inform us of what they're pumping down those fracking wells and the environment and everything living is paying a horrible price. Is that worth it? Why is it not made safe? What about the repercussions like earth quakes? This is a horrible idea....and it should be stopped.
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I'm sorry Haiku but you just don't know what your talking about. These exemptions were in place long before Cheney was VP. You're comments are exageration and hyperbole. These problems can be managed and should be managed. If we took your approach we'd all still be living in caves.
 
i have to say, pains me to say it though

mott da hoopty cleaned evince, haiku and rune's mental clocks

but that is not very hard to do, still, good job mott
 
Fracking should continue subject to regulation and careful analysis, with special consideration being given to exclude companies with poor environmental and safety records.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
(6:05) “What I didn’t know was that the 2005 energy bill pushed through Congress by Dick Cheney exempts the oil and natural gas industries from Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act, the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Superfund law, and about a dozen other environmental and Democratic regulations.”
  • This assertion, every part of it, is false. The oil and natural gas industry is regulated under every single one of these laws — under provisions of each that are relevant to its operations. See this fact sheet for a fuller explanation of that.

  • The process of hydraulic fracturing, to which Fox appears to be making reference here, has never in its 60-year history been regulated under the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA). It has, however, been regulated ably and aggressively by the states, which have compiled an impressive record of enforcement and oversight in the many decades in which they have been engaged in the practice.

  • Far from being “pushed through Congress by Dick Cheney,” the Energy Policy Act of 2005 earned the support of nearly three-quarters of the U.S. Senate (74 “yea” votes), including the top Democrat on the Energy Committee; current Interior secretary Ken Salazar, then a senator from Colorado; and a former junior senator from Illinois named Barack Obama. In the U.S. House, 75 Democrats joined 200 Republicans in supporting the final bill, including the top Democratic members on both the Energy & Commerce and Resources Committees.
http://www.energyindepth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/Federal-Hydraulic-Fracturing-Process.pdf

http://www.energyindepth.org/debunking-gasland/
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Mmmmm that's kinda a yes and no. The oil and gas industry do have exemptions under most of the major environmental regulations. You are correct though that they are not a full and complete exemption from regulation. They do have exemptions from full compliance with these statutes. They also, date back further than 2005.
 
I must admit that Mott seems very knowledgable on this subject. Obviously Haiku, Rune and Desh just know their Obama talking points and thus have gotten rapedon this issue. They should head to planned parenthood and have their posts aborted.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I'm sorry Haiku but you just don't know what your talking about. These exemptions were in place long before Cheney was VP. You're comments are exageration and hyperbole. These problems can be managed and should be managed. If we took your approach we'd all still be living in caves.
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Just call her Wilma.
 
cannabis said:
i have to say, pains me to say it though

mott da hoopty cleaned evince, haiku and rune's mental clocks

but that is not very hard to do, still, good job mott
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Well it's not completely fair. It's what I do for a living. I have to deal with a lot of politicization of what is essentially a public health issue and anytime you deal with the public on these kinds of issues things get emotional real quick and often people don't want to hear facts.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I'm sorry but that's a grossly uninformed opinion. The fracking boom has played a significant role in our recovery from the Bush recession and will undoubtably play a very important role in energy production and from a strategic standpoint it has all ready greatly reduced the volume of petroleum products that we import from the ME and other unstable regions of the world. The problems and issues involved with fracking can be readily managed with the appropriate level of regulation. You should also keep in mind that the money's we've been spending on importing petroleum products to our nation represents the greatest transfer of wealth in human history. Fracking has all ready greatly reduced that economic hemoraging and shows great potential to eliminate it all together. Now that money spent is circulated in our own national economy and is not being sent abroad where it does us little or no good.

I'd suggest doing some more stuyding on the issue from non-political sources before you make such ideological and emotionally based decisions. We can't afford to throw the baby out with the bath water. There are real and significant problems associated with fracking but the economic and strategic benefits can't be blown off with a knee jerk responses like this. The benefits are to great and the problems associated are very manageable. I'd suggest that the more rational approach is to identify the problems and issues related fracking and that the appropriate regulations identifying best management practices in regards to health, safety and the environment be enforced. Not only can this be done but it probably can be done within the existing regulatory frame work.
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No doubt Snarla will be along soon to give you a bollocking for being mean to Evince and Howie's Harem.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
What the dumbos are incapable of understanding is that if the shale wasn't impermeable then there wouldn't be any gas there anyway, it would have escaped eons ago.
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So Tom, how impermeable is it after fracking? How controlled is the fracking?
Fracking is not a very exact science is it Tom?
 
Rune said:
So Tom, how impermeable is it after fracking? How controlled is the fracking?
Fracking is not a very exact science is it Tom?
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i like how you're too chicken shit to address mott's posts on the subject.

mott cleaned your clock and you're too timid to address what he has said about fracking.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Well it's not completely fair. It's what I do for a living. I have to deal with a lot of politicization of what is essentially a public health issue and anytime you deal with the public on these kinds of issues things get emotional real quick and often people don't want to hear facts.
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That's just the public, journalists are almost invariably totally ignorant of scientific issues.
 
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