Egyptian Democracy!

USFREEDOM911 said:
Which goes right along with my comment regarding politicians and the peaceniks.
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You were the one that mentioned baby killers implying that never happened. Maybe it would have been different if there wasn't a draft and regular soldiers were sent to Vietnam. The US lost the war because they relied on the South Vietnamese too much and had bad intelligence. The one good thing they did do was to recruit the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Montagnards[/FONT], however they abandoned them after the war.

http://www.montagnard-foundation.org/news-04-0621.htm
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I see you made the decision to ignore how the way the very people you said had their best interest at heart, treated them when they returned.
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I'm not ignoring that. They were trying to stop others from going to war. They were showing others that if/when they returned they would not be considered heroes. They were showing others it was not a noble cause. They were showing others they would not be honored like their parents were after WWII. They were trying to save lives.

Or how the protests at home, along with Fonda's visit, supported the North Vietnemese.
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How many times does one have to tell you the war was started on a lie? Do you think it would be noble to defend a lie and continue to have young people maimed and killed to defend a lie?

What are you defending, anyway?
 
apple0154 said:
I'm not ignoring that. They were trying to stop others from going to war. They were showing others that if/when they returned they would not be considered heroes. They were showing others it was not a noble cause. They were showing others they would not be honored like their parents were after WWII. They were trying to save lives.



How many times does one have to tell you the war was started on a lie? Do you think it would be noble to defend a lie and continue to have young people maimed and killed to defend a lie?

What are you defending, anyway?
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I will say one thing though, many of the returning veterans were treated abysmally. They hadn't asked to go there and many have suffered lifelong horrors.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I will say one thing though, many of the returning veterans were treated abysmally. They hadn't asked to go there and many have suffered lifelong horrors.
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I agree. One would think young people today would take a look at that. The Vets were used by their country. They were lied to by their country. And this idea of recruiting young people, glamorizing the military, taking advantage of young men at an age when they seek adventure and think they're invincible.....it's disgusting.
 
apple0154 said:
I agree. One would think young people today would take a look at that. The Vets were used by their country. They were lied to by their country. And this idea of recruiting young people, glamorizing the military, taking advantage of young men at an age when they seek adventure and think they're invincible.....it's disgusting.
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I have met many vets in Thailand, who have chosen to stay there rather than go back, and some of their stories are just terrifying. There is a whole cluster of them up in Udon Thani.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
So you are unaware of comments made by Bui Tin, during an interview wtih the Wall Street Journal, in 1995?
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I was at the Presidential Palace last year, he claims that he was in the first wave of tanks to enter the palace. I am sure that the Vietcong were happy about the anti-war movement but it was the behaviour of the US which caused their ultimate downfall. They should have learnt something from the tactics employed by the British in Malaya in the '50s.

http://www.psywar.org/malaya.php
 
apple0154 said:
Yes, the "fucking peaceniks" or is that the fucking "pieceniks"? Young men, at home, using their balls instead of getting them blown off by Bouncing Bettys. They were doing their best to prevent other young men from being butchered in the slaughter of war. Maybe you should consider how many lives they saved.
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That war had been going on for years, over a decade even, before Americans started to protest. I think American involvement was greatest around the time of the Tet offensive. Protestors may have given the Viet Cong fodder for their propaganda efforts but I doubt it was a major incentive in keeping up the fighting.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
You were the one that mentioned baby killers implying that never happened. Maybe it would have been different if there wasn't a draft and regular soldiers were sent to Vietnam. The US lost the war because they relied on the South Vietnamese too much and had bad intelligence. The one good thing they did do was to recruit the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Montagnards[/FONT], however they abandoned them after the war.

http://www.montagnard-foundation.org/news-04-0621.htm
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It was the politicians that lost the war; because they thought they knew how to run the military, better then the military did.
 
apple0154 said:
I'm not ignoring that. They were trying to stop others from going to war. They were showing others that if/when they returned they would not be considered heroes. They were showing others it was not a noble cause. They were showing others they would not be honored like their parents were after WWII. They were trying to save lives.



How many times does one have to tell you the war was started on a lie? Do you think it would be noble to defend a lie and continue to have young people maimed and killed to defend a lie?

What are you defending, anyway?
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I guess your so dense that you can't figure it out, so I'll try to explain it to you.
People in the military go where they are told and fight when they are told to fight.
People treat the military personel like they made a choice to go or not.
If you've got a complaint, then address it to the ones who are responsible and those are the politicians.
If it is decided to send in the military, then get the fuck out of the way and let them do what they've been trained to do.
Let the politicians do what they were elected to do, after the military are finished.
 
Between Mutt's astounding ignorance and Christie's Islamogasms, this thread is sufficient evidence that modern liberals are completely out of their minds.
 
bdw said:
Here's the bottom line... I am all for democracy; what I am NOT for is mob rule. When a religious party comes into power and forces its moral code onto the general population, there is a problem. Why many liberals refuse to acknowledge this is simply beyond me.
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Dude, you cannot just have 1 set of elections and then BAM! Freedom for all. No nation has worked like that. If the people want to languish as proles, ultimately that is their choice, not ours.
 
BAN HAMMER said:
Dude, you cannot just have 1 set of elections and then BAM! Freedom for all. No nation has worked like that. If the people want to languish as proles, ultimately that is their choice, not ours.
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Fine... by why celebrate it as though it is some sort of "victory"? Liberals would shit their pants if a country chose a fundamentalist Christian whackjob, but they're pissing all over themselves about Morsi winning in Egypt. All I see is more hypocrisy from the left. Christian = bad, Islam = good.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
I guess your so dense that you can't figure it out, so I'll try to explain it to you.
People in the military go where they are told and fight when they are told to fight.
People treat the military personel like they made a choice to go or not.
If you've got a complaint, then address it to the ones who are responsible and those are the politicians.
If it is decided to send in the military, then get the fuck out of the way and let them do what they've been trained to do.
Let the politicians do what they were elected to do, after the military are finished.
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If the military had been allowed to do whatever they wanted then the world would have been fried during the Cuban Missile crisis. I suppose that is one way that Vietnam could have been prevented. It was only years after when the Kremlin files were opened up that it was discovered there were 162 missiles primed and ready to launch at US targets. They would have been fired if Kennedy hadn't stopped those crazy bastard generals ordering a first strike.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/05/w...d-armageddon-his-own.html?pagewanted=2&src=pm
 
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bdw said:
Fine... by why celebrate it as though it is some sort of "victory"? Liberals would shit their pants if a country chose a fundamentalist Christian whackjob, but they're pissing all over themselves about Morsi winning in Egypt. All I see is more hypocrisy from the left. Christian = bad, Islam = good.
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That's not correct. Liberals would be upset if THIS country chose a Christian fundamentalist.
 
Onceler said:
That's not correct. Liberals would be upset if THIS country chose a Christian fundamentalist.
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Id be upset, but would respect the result and work to change things in the next election. I would not turn against democracy.
 
bdw said:
And what of the minority who are Christians, moderate/liberal Muslim, or non-religious? Fuck 'em?

I believe in individual rights. You, on the other hand, apparently believe in mob rule.
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I believe that Morsi was elected by majority vote and that the opposition didn't run a candidate that appealed to more voters. Clearly they were tired of the Mubarak regime and had no interest in electing his PM.

I'm really not sure what your beef is, other than the usual hatred of Muslims. The US was the best recruiting tool Muslims could have hoped for, after our illegal, immoral invasion of Iraq. What happened in Egypt is one of the unintended consequences liberals then warned about, while conservatives shrugged us off and continued to chant their shallow-minded slogans about bringing freedom and democracy to the world.
 
bdw said:
Fine... by why celebrate it as though it is some sort of "victory"? Liberals would shit their pants if a country chose a fundamentalist Christian whackjob, but they're pissing all over themselves about Morsi winning in Egypt. All I see is more hypocrisy from the left. Christian = bad, Islam = good.
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You have a real phobia about Islam. Seek help. I, for one, am not that invested in other countries' elections that I'll piss myself over the results.
 
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