Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
I'm not following what you are trying to say.
Are you saying the Socialists who tried to socialize medicine?
Young doctors being asked to play God
- Thread starter Dutch Uncle
- Start date
I'm not following what you are trying to say.
Are you saying the Socialists who tried to socialize medicine?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Which they drink straight from the tap......and you don't want to know where that is.
Mason Melchizedek
Verified User
I didn't know I was in a different place!I was in the same building!
Mason Melchizedek
Verified User
Eat shit Xer
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Go easy on him. Every time he attacks Boomers, he insults every Republican who is a Boomer. All it does is make him look stupid and immature....plus it divides the Republicans by age group. The Republican Boomers won't trust the Gen Xers or younger.
MAGA MAN
Let's go Brandon!
I prefer steak and eggs, thanks.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
That's not up to me, Gomer. The only thing that is required is that it's verifiable.
The proof you aren't what you claim is YOUR unwillingness to prove it and your willingness to make excuses as if it's my fault you don't.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
No, there's no way you can prove your claim because ZERO evidence exists to back it up.
One thing I've proven with my post is that you're lying about your military service. Someone that claims to be what you are would be proud to prove it. That you aren't supports my claim that you never served.
I was in the same room, emergency doctor was in network, anesthesiologist was out of network! I had no idea till I got the $1800 bill.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Dude, you've been hanging around with 40 year olds who act like 15 year olds for far too long.
You just accused me of committing a felony. If you are a true American, you'd report me. Do it: https://tips.fbi.gov/
If you are what you claim, you'd provide proof it. You made the claim.
Pay your fucking bill, freeloader.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
So you are either not a true American or you are a chickenshit in addition to being a liar.
ProudLefty was wrong: CFM doesn't stand for "Certified Fucking Moron". Obviously it stands for Chickenshit Fucking Moron.
I hope you call the FBI, but I strongly doubt you will because you are clearly a chickenshit fucking moron.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
More about the triage decisions being made by doctors during this pandemic:
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...-lives-and-who-dies-in-our-coronavirus-crisis
In the 18th century, military doctors developed principles of triage to help decide who should be treated on battlefields when not all patients could be aided. In other extreme emergencies since then, including the current COVID-19 pandemic, physicians have similarly had to choose how to allocate limited resources to benefit the largest possible number of patients — those who are most likely to survive. Sadly, the severely sick might not get care if their odds of recovery with treatment are nil...
...Regrettably, if ventilators are limited, certain categories of patients might need to be excluded from consideration, such as those with advanced cancer or severe Alzheimer’s disease. Ideally, doctors should not abandon such patients but, instead, provide other treatment or resources that might be available, such as palliative or so-called “comfort” care. Alas, humans are bad at making predictions, but doctors have developed careful, agreed-upon assessments tools.
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...-lives-and-who-dies-in-our-coronavirus-crisis
In the 18th century, military doctors developed principles of triage to help decide who should be treated on battlefields when not all patients could be aided. In other extreme emergencies since then, including the current COVID-19 pandemic, physicians have similarly had to choose how to allocate limited resources to benefit the largest possible number of patients — those who are most likely to survive. Sadly, the severely sick might not get care if their odds of recovery with treatment are nil...
...Regrettably, if ventilators are limited, certain categories of patients might need to be excluded from consideration, such as those with advanced cancer or severe Alzheimer’s disease. Ideally, doctors should not abandon such patients but, instead, provide other treatment or resources that might be available, such as palliative or so-called “comfort” care. Alas, humans are bad at making predictions, but doctors have developed careful, agreed-upon assessments tools.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Part of the problem with COVID-19 and the necessity of triage isn't simply the shortage of ventilators (barring other treatment options), but the fact, as noted below, that patients need them for weeks at a time, not just a few days as used in most cases.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/health/coronavirus-hospital-ethics-ventilators-invs/index.html
...If a person comes in and needs a ventilator and you don't have a ventilator, the person dies. That's the blunt equation here," Cuomo said.
The demand for ventilators has skyrocketed in intensive care units across the country as coronavirus patients have flooded in. Typically, adult patients will stay in the ICU -- and on a ventilator -- for only three to four days, as one Connecticut doctor explained, but Covid-19 patients need them for up to two or three weeks, dramatically increasing demand...
...It is essentially a point system calculating a patient's likelihood to benefit from ICU care, based on two considerations: 1) saving the most lives and 2) saving the most life-years.
The lower the patient scores, the higher their prioritization for care. In the system's eight-point scale, the first four points illustrate the patient's likelihood to survive hospitalization, and the last four points assess whether, assuming they survive hospitalization, they have medical conditions associated with a life expectancy of less than one year or less than five years.
In the event of a tie, White's framework directs doctors to consider life cycle, with priority being given to younger patients.
"These are inevitably tragic choices with only bad options," White said. "But the only thing worse than developing a clear allocation framework is not developing one, because then decisions made during a crisis will be biased and arbitrary."...
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/health/coronavirus-hospital-ethics-ventilators-invs/index.html
...If a person comes in and needs a ventilator and you don't have a ventilator, the person dies. That's the blunt equation here," Cuomo said.
The demand for ventilators has skyrocketed in intensive care units across the country as coronavirus patients have flooded in. Typically, adult patients will stay in the ICU -- and on a ventilator -- for only three to four days, as one Connecticut doctor explained, but Covid-19 patients need them for up to two or three weeks, dramatically increasing demand...
...It is essentially a point system calculating a patient's likelihood to benefit from ICU care, based on two considerations: 1) saving the most lives and 2) saving the most life-years.
The lower the patient scores, the higher their prioritization for care. In the system's eight-point scale, the first four points illustrate the patient's likelihood to survive hospitalization, and the last four points assess whether, assuming they survive hospitalization, they have medical conditions associated with a life expectancy of less than one year or less than five years.
In the event of a tie, White's framework directs doctors to consider life cycle, with priority being given to younger patients.
"These are inevitably tragic choices with only bad options," White said. "But the only thing worse than developing a clear allocation framework is not developing one, because then decisions made during a crisis will be biased and arbitrary."...
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
This guideline took a decade to develop and existed in 2015. It's 272 pages, so I've only posted a couple of snippets from the link.
https://www.health.ny.gov/regulations/task_force/reports_publications/docs/ventilator_guidelines.pdf
A pandemic that is especially severe with respect to the number of patients affected and
the acuity of illness will create shortages of many health care resources, including personnel and
equipment. Specifically, many more patients will require the use of ventilators than can be
accommodated with current supplies....
...a triage officer/committee must select one of many eligible red
color code patients to receive ventilator therapy. A patient’s likelihood of survival (i.e.,
assessment of mortality risk) is the most important consideration when evaluating a patient.
However, there may be a situation where multiple patients have been assigned a red color code,
which indicates they all have the highest level of access to ventilator therapy, and they all have
equal (or near equal) likelihoods of survival. If the eligible patient pool consists of only adults or
only children, a randomization process, such as a lottery, is used each time a ventilator becomes
available because there are no other evidence-based clinical factors available to consider.
Patients waiting for ventilator therapy wait in an eligible patient pool. However, in limited
circumstances, if: (1) the pool of patients eligible for ventilator therapy includes both adults and
children, and (2) all available clinical data suggest that the probability of mortality among the
pool of patients have been found equivalent (i.e., all patients are assigned a red color code), then
young age (i.e., 17 years old and younger) may be utilized as a tie-breaker to select a patient for
ventilator therapy...
https://www.health.ny.gov/regulations/task_force/reports_publications/docs/ventilator_guidelines.pdf
A pandemic that is especially severe with respect to the number of patients affected and
the acuity of illness will create shortages of many health care resources, including personnel and
equipment. Specifically, many more patients will require the use of ventilators than can be
accommodated with current supplies....
...a triage officer/committee must select one of many eligible red
color code patients to receive ventilator therapy. A patient’s likelihood of survival (i.e.,
assessment of mortality risk) is the most important consideration when evaluating a patient.
However, there may be a situation where multiple patients have been assigned a red color code,
which indicates they all have the highest level of access to ventilator therapy, and they all have
equal (or near equal) likelihoods of survival. If the eligible patient pool consists of only adults or
only children, a randomization process, such as a lottery, is used each time a ventilator becomes
available because there are no other evidence-based clinical factors available to consider.
Patients waiting for ventilator therapy wait in an eligible patient pool. However, in limited
circumstances, if: (1) the pool of patients eligible for ventilator therapy includes both adults and
children, and (2) all available clinical data suggest that the probability of mortality among the
pool of patients have been found equivalent (i.e., all patients are assigned a red color code), then
young age (i.e., 17 years old and younger) may be utilized as a tie-breaker to select a patient for
ventilator therapy...