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really nigel.....
no expectation of privacy in tracking cell phones
show me where congress already approved this....
Where's the moral outrage?
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really nigel.....
no expectation of privacy in tracking cell phones
show me where congress already approved this....
To pretend that precedent and court decisions don't count if it is about "something the past administration did" is seriously delusional. I'm not at all kidding when I say that people like you are dangerous to our freedoms. In seeking to get the court to rule such overpowering "Sovereign Immunity" that doesn't even allow for any lawsuit whatsoever without evidence of "willful disclosure" is a serious and overwhelming new power not afforded to the Executive before. Especially when, in their brief, they made it clear it didn't cover just warrantless wiretapping, but any surveillance whatsoever so long as it was labeled as associated with terrorism.
It's beyond ridiculous to seriously argue that such an overwhelming grab at power wasn't expanding on the previous administration's position.
To ignore such a willful and brazen power grab just for partisan idiocy and then tell me it is "better"? That isn't even remotely close to "better," unless you think totalitarian power is "good".
I'm at a loss for words... other than to repeat your last line. Lot's of ignorance out of you on this, and multiple excuses, but very little value...
christiefan915
Catalyst
STY is consistent and we agree on a lot of things.
It's pretty sad that Dixie equates a document dump to an act of war, though.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
That's what it is, when the documents are classified defense documents. You can think it's "sad" or "happy" or whatever, I really don't give a flying fuck. When someone compromises our security and puts American lives at risk, that's a serious offense, or have you forgotten all about Valerie Plame? You see, Val was one person, and her name just got leaked out... Scooter Libby ended up in prison for that, after watching liberals like you writhe in the streets moaning about her safety. With what Assagne did, hundreds of CIA intelligence gatherers were compromised, sources were named, and thousands were put in harms way. And all you liberals can do, is sit around and dream up bullshit defenses and excuses for him, like the fucked-in-the-head bunch of morons you are!
christiefan915
Catalyst
Yes, I remember the Plame affair. Neither Bob Novak nor Dick Armitage was charged with high treason and hanged for that "act of war", (according to you.) Even though, "... naming her this way would have compromised every operation, every relationship, every network with which she had been associated in her entire career..." Libby was charged and convicted for perjury, obstructing justice and making false statements. I'm waiting for his future memoirs, where he outlines how he he was framed and took the fall for cheney and other higher-ups in the affair.
Where were all the outraged righties at the time? It's my recollection they supported what happened. "Treason" and "traitor" were terms reserved for war protesters by those who needed to believe the US was justified invading Iraq, and the Wilson/Plame affair removed one of those justifications that bush et al were touting.
Now give me some concrete evidence that Assange's document dump will result in thousands being put in harm's way. Just your opinion isn't enough. I haven't read about anything more from the documents besides the snippy comments of diplomats.
The Plame bullshit happened quite awhile ago so this claim of putting her, or anyone in danger is just so much crap....and never materialized....
so, its obvious, your opinion isn't worth warm spit.....
christiefan915
Catalyst
Take it up with Dixie. He chose the analogy, not me.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I brought up Valerie Plame, not because it's comparable to this, but because it was a case where a CIA operative was "outed" and you fuckwits went LIVID over it. Here's a case where HUNDREDS of Valerie Plames have been outed, and you retards act like you want to make him the man of the year! It's just a stark and revealing contrast of how the liberal mind works, dependent upon which party is in power. Plame's name was revealed, that was all! No details of her activities, no documents pertaining to her actions, just her name... and the left went absolutely ballistic over that! Oh, her safety was at risk, and American security was compromised, and on and on and on you went, for days... weeks... months! This is 10,000 times WORSE than that, and you all want to turn it into an SNL skit and ridicule Conservatives who are outraged by this administrations feckless lack of balls in dealing with the situation. Par for the fucking course for you hypocrites!
They weren't even shot, and did Dixie even suggest shooting them, or was that different "acause theren republicans yuck yuck!"
Really? really, is that what you think, or do you have sources to back that claim up, because I would appreciate seeing them, thanks
"Another intelligence official who spoke anonymously to Linzer cited the CIA's interest in protecting the agency and its work: "You'll never get a straight answer [from the Agency] about how valuable she was or how valuable her sources were."
And that, makes sense! It is called damage control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair#cite_note-postdamaged-185
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
And it's so much more true, when it comes from an "...official who spoke anonymously..."; because then it's so easy to believe.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Again, for the second time now, the Plame incident was not brought up because it's the same as this incident. In order for the Plame incident to have been remotely similar, Cheney would have had to steal classified documents and given them to Robert Novak, who would have then published them. If THAT had happened, I would be calling for Novak and Cheney to be shot as well! That didn't happen. These are two completely different events, with little to do with one another, other than the fact that they both involve sensitive information being made public. In one instance, you retards had a cow over it, in another... meh, no biggie! The one you had the cow over, involved the mere leaking of a name, the one that's not a big deal to you, involves revealing of hundreds of names, details of meetings, analysis of intelligence, and actual classified documents.
I guess safety of an American intelligence operative's life is only important when it's the wife of a Democrat Congressman who was trying to ambush the president? In all other instances, ahh, what difference does it make? Is that about the size of it?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
You can obsess on Plame all you like... she was ONE person! Assange is responsible for outing HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of people like Plame, and not only revealing their name, but what they discussed with each other, and the actual documentation of meetings and notes. Yet, there is no outrage from the left over Assange, it's made a joke of on SNL, liberals are running around this very board, making excuses for him and defending him like he did something to be proud of as a liberal. He did what was done to Plame, only 10,000 times worse! The damage to our entire intelligence apparatus is immeasurable...the same couldn't be said for the Plame incident.
Damo, your argument is that the Obama DOJ's defense of Bush's illegal warrantless wiretapping is worse than Bush's illegal warrantless wiretapping. That's just stupid.
The fact that you have to use such hyperbole in your argument ("seriously delusional," "dangerous to our freedoms," "serious and overwhelming new power," "overwhelming grab at power," "willful and brazen power grab," "totalitarian power") betrays the weakness of your position.
christiefan915
Catalyst
One more time: give me some concrete evidence that Assange's document dump will result in thousands being put in harm's way. Just your opinion isn't enough. I haven't read about anything more from the documents besides the snippy comments of diplomats. It's been 9-10 days, where's the big reveal that's going to "embolden the terrorists" and endanger America?
So far all we've seen is that these so-called diplomats who weren't smart enough to keep their trash talk off the record didn't learn what the rest of us learned in Jobs 101: don't put your insults in writing. We've all yukked it up when leaked insulting emails go viral on the internet and wag our fingers at the poor saps who didn't have a clue. I expect people working in sensitive positions to be SMARTER than the average schmo and certainly more circumspect about what they put in writing. That you can't or won't acknowledge this speaks volumes.
Furthermore, these documents go back 45 years so it's not just about current events, like the Plame affair was.
christiefan915
Catalyst
How was she trying to "ambush the president"? Everything they found was true. Even bush acknowledges it in his memoir. Are you forgetting about the forged documents? the infamous "16 words"?
Your priorities are f*cked. As Americans we have the right to question the decisions of our elected officials and hold them to account for lying. Wilson knew Saddam wasn't buying yellowcake but the administration went right ahead with that bogus claim in the SOTU. bush was determined to strike Iraq and the heck with those pesky details that contradicted him. Intelligence analysts knew the claim was false. George Tenet and Colin Powell gradually became aware the claim was false. bush, cheney et al should be indicted for war crimes because of their reckless disregard for the truth and their eagerness to launch war against a sovereign nation that posed no threat to the US.
Slam dunk, baby!
No, my point is that Obama sought even a larger power grab than even Bush was willing to attempt. That you are able to dismiss such a thing because it was "about something else" is preposterous and ignorant. You desperately want to believe that he didn't "expand" anything or "make it worse" as it was my assertion he has done. I have documented my point, you have simply said "No! Because it was about that other thing!"
The weak argument is the undocumented opinion of the messageboard user, not the well-documented evidence presented to show that my position is based in actual facts and the direct words of The Obama Himself.
huh??????