Fellow Christians, what does this passage mean to you?

Magic 8-ball says: It's doubtful.

Man created god in his own image.... that means that god has existed since man made him/her/it. Having created god, man can now destroy god.
That would be nice for all you misguided Americans who parade their christianity like a Madison Avenue product slogan.

There is no god. There is philosophy and there is, perhaps, a gap in the language that has been filled with the word 'god' but as far as that 'idea' being a supernatural deity it is, of course, absolute nonsense.

That is not to say that the weak of mind should not continue to get comfort from the idea. I hope they do.
 
Man created god in his own image.... that means that god has existed since man made him/her/it. Having created god, man can now destroy god.
That would be nice for all you misguided Americans who parade their christianity like a Madison Avenue product slogan.

There is no god. There is philosophy and there is, perhaps, a gap in the language that has been filled with the word 'god' but as far as that 'idea' being a supernatural deity it is, of course, absolute nonsense.

That is not to say that the weak of mind should not continue to get comfort from the idea. I hope they do.

Too bad you can't prove it and it is only your opinion. Quite a few people on the planet disagree with you, somewhere close to 95% to be exact. That's how many of us believe in something greater than self. If you believe there is no God, then you are a Nihilist, you believe in nothing. Apart from being a very small sliver of society as a whole, you are also devoid of common sense and logic, because the overwhelming evidence suggests there is something to human spiritual belief. Even your own hero Darwin would agree, if the species has always worshiped something greater than self, there is certainly a profound connection with this attribute and survival of the species. It appears YOU are the one who is weak of mind. Rather than explore possibility, you retreat to the safe confines of Nihilistic belief, even though everything that makes you a human being, rejects that philosophy. That's why you persistently rail and protest against something you claim you don't believe in.
 
The word "catholic" when literally translated means "universal"... it comes from the Greek word katholikos...

Does that mean they are Universalists in Jarod's world? Should we assume that means that they are Unitarians because that means the same thing?
 
Too bad you can't prove it and it is only your opinion. Quite a few people on the planet disagree with you, somewhere close to 95% to be exact. That's how many of us believe in something greater than self. If you believe there is no God, then you are a Nihilist, you believe in nothing. Apart from being a very small sliver of society as a whole, you are also devoid of common sense and logic, because the overwhelming evidence suggests there is something to human spiritual belief. Even your own hero Darwin would agree, if the species has always worshiped something greater than self, there is certainly a profound connection with this attribute and survival of the species. It appears YOU are the one who is weak of mind. Rather than explore possibility, you retreat to the safe confines of Nihilistic belief, even though everything that makes you a human being, rejects that philosophy. That's why you persistently rail and protest against something you claim you don't believe in.

Exactly right... but then even Nietzsche wasn't an honest nihilist- so how can we expect disingenuous Low to be.
 
The word "catholic" when literally translated means "universal"... it comes from the Greek word katholikos...

Does that mean they are Universalists in Jarod's world? Should we assume that means that they are Unitarians because that means the same thing?

If you are going to pretend that the name defines the religen, I guess you could argue that.
 
If you are going to pretend that the name defines the religen, I guess you could argue that.

Except you really can't. Universal is not the same thing as Unitarian, which teaches that the "trinity" is not a "trinity"...

All of that is just a side note, however... I was just throwing out my useless knowledge gained by a long wasted youth in SuperChurchFamily forcing me to attend "The Bible in Greek" classes among others in their Bible College to save my "Atheist" soul.
 
Too bad you can't prove it and it is only your opinion. Quite a few people on the planet disagree with you, somewhere close to 95% to be exact. That's how many of us believe in something greater than self. If you believe there is no God, then you are a Nihilist, you believe in nothing. Apart from being a very small sliver of society as a whole, you are also devoid of common sense and logic, because the overwhelming evidence suggests there is something to human spiritual belief. Even your own hero Darwin would agree, if the species has always worshiped something greater than self, there is certainly a profound connection with this attribute and survival of the species. It appears YOU are the one who is weak of mind. Rather than explore possibility, you retreat to the safe confines of Nihilistic belief, even though everything that makes you a human being, rejects that philosophy. That's why you persistently rail and protest against something you claim you don't believe in.

Let's look again at what I said:

'There is philosophy and there is, perhaps, a gap in the language that has been filled with the word 'god' but as far as that 'idea' being a supernatural deity it is, of course, absolute nonsense.'

You may say that a philosophy might be spiritual as it concerns that aspect of self often labelled the spirit. Nothing wrong with that. It is the thing you get when listening to beautiful music or working on a painting or a poem or walking into the sunset or standing silent in a gothic cathedral. But it is within the self, it has nothing to do with any god as such. It cannot have despite how people explain it. There can be no deity that exists anywhere in itself other than in the creation of mans mind.
I am sure 'spiritual - ism' exists in many aspects and I doubt that you, or I for that matter, adequately represent the idea.
 
Call it what you will, it does not deny the existance of the Christ.

except they do....

A primary way we differ is that we do not regard Jesus as a unique revelation of God. Most UUs (even UU Christians) would reject a literal interpretation of accepted Christian beliefs such as the Virgin Birth, the miracles of Jesus and the Resurrection. While UU Christians would accept a symbolic interpretation of these events, most UUs view Jesus as a moral and ethical teacher and no more than that.

http://www.uunashua.org/100q/c2.shtml#q18
 
Let's look again at what I said:

'There is philosophy and there is, perhaps, a gap in the language that has been filled with the word 'god' but as far as that 'idea' being a supernatural deity it is, of course, absolute nonsense.'

You may say that a philosophy might be spiritual as it concerns that aspect of self often labelled the spirit. Nothing wrong with that. It is the thing you get when listening to beautiful music or working on a painting or a poem or walking into the sunset or standing silent in a gothic cathedral. But it is within the self, it has nothing to do with any god as such. It cannot have despite how people explain it. There can be no deity that exists anywhere in itself other than in the creation of mans mind.
I am sure 'spiritual - ism' exists in many aspects and I doubt that you, or I for that matter, adequately represent the idea.

There is an intrinsic and natural inclination for humans to worship something greater than self. This has been present in man for as long as we have a history of man, and it persists today as much as any time in history, in spite of 'enlightenment' or new age philosophy. The word "supernatural" is created by man to describe something that is not of the natural world. The entity or force commonly referred to as "God" would qualify as a "supernatural" entity. Yes, a "supernatural" entity would defy all understanding of natural phenomenon, otherwise it would not be supernatural. Therefore, it is understandable how people can justify doubt in the 'existence' of God. Things 'exist' in the natural world, 'existence' is manifest in the physical state of being. The supernatural is much different, it is present, but it does not 'exist' in the natural world, it has no physical characteristics, it can't be defined by physical values found in the natural world.

Because "God" can't be defined by physical or natural characteristics, people will often have difficulty accepting it can 'exist' because, from a physical perspective, it can't. If you can only comprehend the physical nature of our universe, you can't comprehend God. This is precisely why belief in any God requires faith. Now "faith" gets a bum rap, it is often said to be "weakness" or man taking an easy way out... but virtually everything anyone ever believes in, requires faith, even principles of physics. You have faith that gravity will work as predicted, that chemicals will react and respond as predicted, that formulas which have been tried, can be repeated with like results, and this all requires you to have faith in the principles of the universe as we understand them. So we all have faith in something, it is required in anything we trust. In order to comprehend the spiritual or supernatural world, you must first have faith that one exists.

Now, I can tell you first hand, that such a world does exist. I just can't give you physical proof. If I asked you, do you love your Mother, I suppose you would probably say, yes... but if I demand you prove to me that you love your mother, can you do that? Not really. You know that you love your mother, there is no doubt or question in your mind, but you can't prove to me that you do, there is nothing you can ever say or do to convince me, unless I choose to believe you. In order to do that, I have to have faith.

I think my understanding of "God" is quite different than most. I know for a fact, there is a positive energy flow, coursing through the universe, which ultimately gives everything we know as life, the miraculous beauty and remarkable nature. This energy flow is constant, it is omnipotent and omnipresent, and those who have discovered the ability to tap into this energy, are capable of unbelievable accomplishment and achievement, as well as knowledge and understanding. It is truly an amazing thing, but you have to know how to realize it. I have personally felt and experienced it, so I believe because I know it is real... and to me, that IS God. And it works in much the same way as Karma, in fact, I think the whole concept of Karma is directly related to human interaction with this energy of the supernatural.

Religion, and religious beliefs, are manifestations of humans trying to understand something not of their world. I believe there are several dimensions, maybe dozens, maybe even hundreds, and we simply 'exist' in one of them. People often ask me about 'afterlife' and I would be curious to know if you believe it is possible as well, but I certainly don't rule out the possibility. I am fascinated by human religious beliefs, because it is interesting to see how people define God, what parameters they establish and boundaries they draw. I believe in something without boundaries or parameters, something too extraordinary for us to even comprehend in our rather modest intelligence. It also fascinates me how many people profess to be Nihilists or Atheists, or even Agnostic, and never realize how they have closed their minds to possibilities, and denied themselves an enlightenment they can never realize, all the while, professing to be wiser than everyone else.

Of all knowledge of all things in the entire universe, what percentage do you think we may comprehend? I believe the number is embarrassingly low. I think there is FAR more that we don't know, understand, or even comprehend, about the universe itself, just in the dimension we occupy, much less other possible dimensions. I laugh at people who proclaim there is no God... As if you know all there is to know.
 
I play fast and loose 'cause that's how I roll. Catholics believe they can be forgiven for their sins by confessing to a priest and repeating a ritual of some kind, Christians believe salvation comes through the blood of Christ and because he died on the cross, they can be forgiven for their sins through repentance and contrition. Catholics take direction from the Holy Roman Church and The Pope, Christians take direction from the Bible and Word of God. Catholics believe redemption can be granted by a priest, Christians believe it must be received directly from God, through his Son, Jesus Christ. I can go on an on... Christians and Catholics are completely different, not the same.

Catholics partake in Confessions because the Bible told them so... :whome:

http://www.o-bible.com/cgibin/ob.cgi?version=bbe&book=jhn&chapter=20

Try reading from John 20:20, and may you have better vision, my son.
 
A note about the Unitarian debate we have going on.

Unitarians, who take their teachings from the Christian Bible, can claim to be Messianic, in that, they believe Jesus of Nazareth was the professied individual who would come and save the Israelites. Christianity is Messianic for this reason, and before the split between the Apostles and the Jews was formalized, there were Messianic Jews who believed in Jesus.

To be a Christian, one must accept the divinity of Jesus. The term "Christ" is not merely a Greek translation of "Messiah." It carries with it the interpretation that Christ is divine.
 
There is an intrinsic and natural inclination for humans to worship something greater than self. This has been present in man for as long as we have a history of man, and it persists today as much as any time in history, in spite of 'enlightenment' or new age philosophy. The word "supernatural" is created by man to describe something that is not of the natural world. The entity or force commonly referred to as "God" would qualify as a "supernatural" entity. Yes, a "supernatural" entity would defy all understanding of natural phenomenon, otherwise it would not be supernatural. Therefore, it is understandable how people can justify doubt in the 'existence' of God. Things 'exist' in the natural world, 'existence' is manifest in the physical state of being. The supernatural is much different, it is present, but it does not 'exist' in the natural world, it has no physical characteristics, it can't be defined by physical values found in the natural world.

Because "God" can't be defined by physical or natural characteristics, people will often have difficulty accepting it can 'exist' because, from a physical perspective, it can't. If you can only comprehend the physical nature of our universe, you can't comprehend God. This is precisely why belief in any God requires faith. Now "faith" gets a bum rap, it is often said to be "weakness" or man taking an easy way out... but virtually everything anyone ever believes in, requires faith, even principles of physics. You have faith that gravity will work as predicted, that chemicals will react and respond as predicted, that formulas which have been tried, can be repeated with like results, and this all requires you to have faith in the principles of the universe as we understand them. So we all have faith in something, it is required in anything we trust. In order to comprehend the spiritual or supernatural world, you must first have faith that one exists.

Now, I can tell you first hand, that such a world does exist. I just can't give you physical proof. If I asked you, do you love your Mother, I suppose you would probably say, yes... but if I demand you prove to me that you love your mother, can you do that? Not really. You know that you love your mother, there is no doubt or question in your mind, but you can't prove to me that you do, there is nothing you can ever say or do to convince me, unless I choose to believe you. In order to do that, I have to have faith.

I think my understanding of "God" is quite different than most. I know for a fact, there is a positive energy flow, coursing through the universe, which ultimately gives everything we know as life, the miraculous beauty and remarkable nature. This energy flow is constant, it is omnipotent and omnipresent, and those who have discovered the ability to tap into this energy, are capable of unbelievable accomplishment and achievement, as well as knowledge and understanding. It is truly an amazing thing, but you have to know how to realize it. I have personally felt and experienced it, so I believe because I know it is real... and to me, that IS God. And it works in much the same way as Karma, in fact, I think the whole concept of Karma is directly related to human interaction with this energy of the supernatural.

Religion, and religious beliefs, are manifestations of humans trying to understand something not of their world. I believe there are several dimensions, maybe dozens, maybe even hundreds, and we simply 'exist' in one of them. People often ask me about 'afterlife' and I would be curious to know if you believe it is possible as well, but I certainly don't rule out the possibility. I am fascinated by human religious beliefs, because it is interesting to see how people define God, what parameters they establish and boundaries they draw. I believe in something without boundaries or parameters, something too extraordinary for us to even comprehend in our rather modest intelligence. It also fascinates me how many people profess to be Nihilists or Atheists, or even Agnostic, and never realize how they have closed their minds to possibilities, and denied themselves an enlightenment they can never realize, all the while, professing to be wiser than everyone else.

Of all knowledge of all things in the entire universe, what percentage do you think we may comprehend? I believe the number is embarrassingly low. I think there is FAR more that we don't know, understand, or even comprehend, about the universe itself, just in the dimension we occupy, much less other possible dimensions. I laugh at people who proclaim there is no God... As if you know all there is to know.

This is the standard cop out. You dont understand because you dont believe, you dont believe because you dont understand which, of course, is balderdash.
As to your point that there is a lot of the universe we do not understand I would be mad not to concur but it is the religious who think they know the answers, not the atheists. That is what science is all about.
All sorts of people believe all sorts of things, my wife is a devout christian as are many of our friends. Many of our friends have no faith in a supernatural. It is they who will progress the world, not the theists.
I would never purposly go out of my way to offend a theist (unless he is an out and out loony - Phelps-like you might say, or unless he is intolerant of me, in which case I will give it all back to him).
I think each person has things which make them happy and satisfied, sometimes we find the things that make us happy also make other people happy, but that is not a faith, it is simply an appreciation.
By and large, I think America starts such a debate on the back foot. The country was founded by 'protest-ors' and it's people have never had leadership with regard to faith, morals, etc. You value your freedoms which is laudable, but that freedom has allowed the growth of some very peculiar institutions andthe street corner business of JEEEzzzusss is one of them.
I think in many respects Europeans are more cynical. They accept 'very' organised religion but seldom have any use for snake oil and are happy to shout that from the rooftops.
The far east prefers things like buddhism, taoism, confucianism which are basically codes for living laced with a liberal portion of straightforward superstition.
Many people need some kind of faith to answer the questions we all ask. It also makes them exceedingly maleable! Watch the way traditional christians have been taught not to see imperfections in their faith and commit their lives to a man in a long robe. Worse still, watch the way the followers of your American 'happy clappy gimme all yer money' corner churches give themselves completely to a con man with half a dozen Rolls Royces and half the wealth of the nation in their back pockets.
 
Worse still, watch the way the followers of your American 'happy clappy gimme all yer money' corner churches give themselves completely to a con man with half a dozen Rolls Royces and half the wealth of the nation in their back pockets.

obviously you have confused "corner church" with "tele-evangelist".......
 

Are you dumb or something? Please note where the quote said "most". It may be that many do believe what you say, but the Chirch does not deny the Divinity of Christ, it's simply that many of the members do not believe it... Two different things.

Additionally your cite comes form the UU church in Nashua, mine came from the National Headquarters. My cite trumps yours!
 
This is the standard cop out. You dont understand because you dont believe, you dont believe because you dont understand which, of course, is balderdash.
As to your point that there is a lot of the universe we do not understand I would be mad not to concur but it is the religious who think they know the answers, not the atheists. That is what science is all about.
All sorts of people believe all sorts of things, my wife is a devout christian as are many of our friends. Many of our friends have no faith in a supernatural. It is they who will progress the world, not the theists.
I would never purposly go out of my way to offend a theist (unless he is an out and out loony - Phelps-like you might say, or unless he is intolerant of me, in which case I will give it all back to him).
I think each person has things which make them happy and satisfied, sometimes we find the things that make us happy also make other people happy, but that is not a faith, it is simply an appreciation.
By and large, I think America starts such a debate on the back foot. The country was founded by 'protest-ors' and it's people have never had leadership with regard to faith, morals, etc. You value your freedoms which is laudable, but that freedom has allowed the growth of some very peculiar institutions andthe street corner business of JEEEzzzusss is one of them.
I think in many respects Europeans are more cynical. They accept 'very' organised religion but seldom have any use for snake oil and are happy to shout that from the rooftops.
The far east prefers things like buddhism, taoism, confucianism which are basically codes for living laced with a liberal portion of straightforward superstition.
Many people need some kind of faith to answer the questions we all ask. It also makes them exceedingly maleable! Watch the way traditional christians have been taught not to see imperfections in their faith and commit their lives to a man in a long robe. Worse still, watch the way the followers of your American 'happy clappy gimme all yer money' corner churches give themselves completely to a con man with half a dozen Rolls Royces and half the wealth of the nation in their back pockets.

Actually, it is the atheists AND the religious that tend to think they have the answers. None of us know for sure, hence the FAITH component of every religion (including Atheism). The only group that doesn't pretend to KNOW for a 'fact' (like poor Ditzie claims) are agnostics.
 
I didn't say it was a joke. Catholics AREN'T Christians... at least not according to some Christians. I said it "tongue in cheek" ...that doesn't mean I was "joking" ...it means I was being purposefully antagonistic and bombastic, and somewhat satirical. You don't like it? Take it up with the Christians who don't believe Catholicism is Christianity... I'm just the messenger.

You staked out a position... Catholics aren't Christians... and then you located sites that corroborated your viewpoint. That's dishonest and one-sided.

"Christians who don't believe Catholicism is Christianity" are as dishonest as you.
 
You staked out a position... Catholics aren't Christians... and then you located sites that corroborated your viewpoint. That's dishonest and one-sided.

"Christians who don't believe Catholicism is Christianity" are as dishonest as you.

He's confusing "born again" with "Christian" in totality. Many Christians do not believe that most Catholics are "saved" because they haven't psychically informed God that they were going to take Jesus into their heart. This is according to John Chapter 3, where Jesus spoke to Nicodemus telling him that to get into the Kingdom of Heaven he must be "born again" (of the spirit).

The whole Psychically informing God thing comes from Romans, Chapter 10...

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

The psychic connection is the part where you are proving you "believe in your heart"...
 
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