Happy Indigenous People's Day!

[ThatOwlWoman]

Where were the prior inhabitants from other than Greenland, Canada, parts of Africa and the southern Americas? Go back a thousand years. Where were they from prior to Europe?

Humans have lived on this continent for at least 20,000 years. They did not come from Iceland, Greenland, or Europe; they came from eastern Asia.

I'm pretty sure that if your family had lived in a locale for thousands of years, and usurpers came and pushed you out, you would feel that YOU were the original settlers.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Where were the prior inhabitants from other than Greenland, Canada, parts of Africa and the southern Americas? Go back a thousand years. Where were they from prior to Europe?

Humans have lived on this continent for at least 20,000 years. They did not come from Iceland, Greenland, or Europe; they came from eastern Asia.

I'm pretty sure that if your family had lived in a locale for thousands of years, and usurpers came and pushed you out, you would feel that YOU were the original settlers.

To be clear, there's evidence of Euros, but it's mixed and rare. If they did come, most died out or left. As the link below notes, the earliest sign of solid evidence is Norse from a 1000 years ago:

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/outlines/history-1994/early-america/the-first-europeans.php
The first Europeans to arrive in North America -- at least the first for whom there is solid evidence -- were Norse, traveling west from Greenland, where Erik the Red had founded a settlement around the year 985. In 1001 his son Leif is thought to have explored the northeast coast of what is now Canada and spent at least one winter there.

There's also indications of Polynesian immigration in South America.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01983-5
DNA analysis of Polynesians and Native South Americans has revealed an ancient genetic signature that resolves a long-running debate over Polynesian origins and early contacts between the two populations.

Most evidence indicates American migrations were over the Bering land bridge during Ice Ages up to 20,000 years ago as you stated.

I don't see what the problem is here. All human beings originated in Africa and spread from there in waves. It's of academic interest to see how humanity spread across the planet, not a sports competition much less a racist competition.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

To be clear, there's evidence of Euros, but it's mixed and rare. If they did come, most died out or left. As the link below notes, the earliest sign of solid evidence is Norse from a 1000 years ago:

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/outlines/history-1994/early-america/the-first-europeans.php
The first Europeans to arrive in North America -- at least the first for whom there is solid evidence -- were Norse, traveling west from Greenland, where Erik the Red had founded a settlement around the year 985. In 1001 his son Leif is thought to have explored the northeast coast of what is now Canada and spent at least one winter there.

There's also indications of Polynesian immigration in South America.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01983-5
DNA analysis of Polynesians and Native South Americans has revealed an ancient genetic signature that resolves a long-running debate over Polynesian origins and early contacts between the two populations.

Most evidence indicates American migrations were over the Bering land bridge during Ice Ages up to 20,000 years ago as you stated.

I don't see what the problem is here. All human beings originated in Africa and spread from there in waves. It's of academic interest to see how humanity spread across the planet, not a sports competition much less a racist competition.

Right, but those ppl did not stay, interbreed with the already-here people, and establish a genetic and archaeological record that lasted more than a few years. All genetic evidence points to the Western Hemisphere being gradually populated over thousands of years by people who arrived in waves from the eastern parts of Asia. The land bridge theory, by the way, is being challenged by the evidence that the western coasts were settled first by ppl using water craft.

Suffice it to say, Columbus was not the first to "discover" America. Per the archaeological record, it was the Norse.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Right, but those ppl did not stay, interbreed with the already-here people, and establish a genetic and archaeological record that lasted more than a few years. All genetic evidence points to the Western Hemisphere being gradually populated over thousands of years by people who arrived in waves from the eastern parts of Asia. The land bridge theory, by the way, is being challenged by the evidence that the western coasts were settled first by ppl using water craft.

Suffice it to say, Columbus was not the first to "discover" America. Per the archaeological record, it was the Norse.

Over the eons, I have no doubt that people followed the hunt be it on foot or by boat. It's amazing what people can accomplish when they are not sitting in front of a computer or TV all day. LOL


Agreed Columbus didn't "discover" America for humanity. In fact, he thought he was discovering a new route to India for Mediterranean Euros.


...note America isn't named after Columbus. LOL

https://www.loc.gov/wiseguide/aug03/america.html
America is named after Amerigo Vespucci, the Italian explorer who set forth the then revolutionary concept that the lands that Christopher Columbus sailed to in 1492 were part of a separate continent. A map created in 1507 by Martin Waldseemüller was the first to depict this new continent with the name "America," a Latinized version of "Amerigo."

 

[Cypress]

Right, but those ppl did not stay, interbreed with the already-here people, and establish a genetic and archaeological record that lasted more than a few years. All genetic evidence points to the Western Hemisphere being gradually populated over thousands of years by people who arrived in waves from the eastern parts of Asia. The land bridge theory, by the way, is being challenged by the evidence that the western coasts were settled first by ppl using water craft.

Suffice it to say, Columbus was not the first to "discover" America. Per the archaeological record, it was the Norse.

Nice work.

There is some speculation (and it may be apocraphyl) that Colombus or other Europeans visited Iceland in the 13th & 14th century, became aware of the Icelandic sagas, and were vaguely aware of a landmass to the west of Europe.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Nice work.

There is some speculation (and it may be apocraphyl) that Colombus or other Europeans visited Iceland in the 13th & 14th century, became aware of the Icelandic sagas, and were vaguely aware of a landmass to the west of Europe.

This is why it's good to write things down. lol

 

[moon]

USA: Happy Columbus Day #1 (although he actually landed in the Bahamas, sighted Cuba, which he thought was China and landed in Hispaniola [now split between the Dominican Republic and Haiti} which he thought may be Japan). All in all fuck all to do with the USA...

Of course, Hispaniola was already populated by Jewish cavemen. ( If it isn't in the bible we can write it in )

...........and he wore tights.





Haw, haw, haw, haw.........................haw, haw............................haw.

 

[Lionfish]

 

[PoliTalker]

Personally, I am completely fine with Saint Patrick's Day, Indigenous People's Day, Italian-American month, African American month, Cinco de Mayo, German-American month, et al.

One of the things I am proudest of our great nation is our diversity and immigrant heritage, and we should always make acknowledgments of that as the source of our greatest strength.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello leaningright,

And I am happy with Columbus Day.

And the bolded above is great. I grew up learning about the melting pot that I believed was the USA. Not so sure nowadays as so many seem to want to fundamentally change things. Oh well…

1. All those people coming from Europe radically changed things. It is absurd to be against change and for the American melting pot when it was change which produced the great American melting pot.

2. How is it possible to claim support for diversity, but only selective diversity?

3. Indigenous People are just as capable of contributing to great American diversity as any other group.

Some Americans are still struggling from the effects of generations of discrimination. We need to let them know we want them to enjoy just as much opportunity and chance of achieving the American Dream as anyone else. A lot of that is feeling good about one's heritage. White people have no problem with that. Not all minority groups in America enjoy the privilege that whites take for granted.

It is an EXCELLENT idea to have Indigenous Peoples' Day. Truly generous and good people welcome more diversity at the table of prosperity.

I celebrated Columbus Day for decades. But that is just part of our story.

I support Indigenous Peoples' Day. Now the story feels more complete.

 

[Cypress]

German-American heritage day was October 6th, and I should have made an effort make some schnitzel and sauerkraut, because I love German food!

 

[Cypress]

And I am happy with Columbus Day.

And the bolded above is great. I grew up learning about the melting pot that I believed was the USA. Not so sure nowadays as so many seem to want to fundamentally change things. Oh well…

Change has been a part of our nation's heritage since 1776.

A bad change was the unprecedented attack on our Congress and our democracy by conservatives on January 6th. Violent attempts to overturn an election is something I thought I would never see in our great democratic republic.

Having one day to acknowledge the experience of indigenous Americans does not strike me as a horrifying or even particularly controversial change.

 

[leaningright]

Hello leaningright,

I support Indigenous Peoples' Day. Now the story feels more complete.

I do too. Chahta Sia Hoke. I say they should have chosen another day. It’s like they’re (the people in charge of recognizing these days…ie. Biden and the rest) trying to continue to pit one side against the other with cancel culture by choosing this particular day. I’m against that. They cannot make the claim that they want to unite the country and continue to do things like this.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Having one day to acknowledge the experience of indigenous Americans does not strike me as a horrifying or even particularly controversial change.

Well, by that standard I guess you can understand why the lunatics and racists on the radical Right (and no, I'm not one) celebrate Martin Luther King Day as "James Earl Ray Day..." Nothing like crazy people to make life interesting...

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I do too. Chahta Sia Hoke. I say they should have chosen another day. It’s like they’re (the people in charge of recognizing these days…ie. Biden and the rest) trying to continue to pit one side against the other with cancel culture by choosing this particular day. I’m against that. They cannot make the claim that they want to unite the country and continue to do things like this.

It's not the politicians who want to change the name of the holiday; it is the indigenous people. This has little to nothing to do with L vs R, although there is always some pandering to the base on both sides.

"Four years ago, the Native leader started an organization alongside Arizona state Sen. Jamescita Peshlakai, Indigenous Peoples' Initiative, with a similar mission: to tell a more positive and more accurate tale of Native Americans by replacing Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples' Day."

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/11/1044823626/indigenous-peoples-day-native-americans-columbus

 

[Stretch]

Humans have lived on this continent for at least 20,000 years. They did not come from Iceland, Greenland, or Europe; they came from eastern Asia.

I'm pretty sure that if your family had lived in a locale for thousands of years, and usurpers came and pushed you out, you would feel that YOU were the original settlers.

Thank-you for making my point.
We are simply the most recent incarnation of "natives" here. In 2,000 years maybe the Maldivians will take over. Get over it.

 

[Stretch]

Nice work.

There is some speculation (and it may be apocraphyl) that Colombus or other Europeans visited Iceland in the 13th & 14th century, became aware of the Icelandic sagas, and were vaguely aware of a landmass to the west of Europe.

Yeah. Doh. We've changed hands more than a dealer in Vegas.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Thank-you for making my point.
We are simply the most recent incarnation of "natives" here. In 2,000 years maybe the Maldivians will take over. Get over it.

Grow up and act like a big girl, skank. Geeze, you're dumber than dirt. Isn't that painful?

 

[Stretch]

Grow up and act like a big girl, skank. Geeze, you're dumber than dirt. Isn't that painful?

Just repeating what you yourself said. Oh well.

 

[leaningright]

It's not the politicians who want to change the name of the holiday; it is the indigenous people. This has little to nothing to do with L vs R, although there is always some pandering to the base on both sides.

"Four years ago, the Native leader started an organization alongside Arizona state Sen. Jamescita Peshlakai, Indigenous Peoples' Initiative, with a similar mission: to tell a more positive and more accurate tale of Native Americans by replacing Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples' Day."

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/11/1044823626/indigenous-peoples-day-native-americans-columbus

I remember when the proposal was gaining traction. I wrote a letter to our chief back then basically outlining the stance I have laid out here and urged him to propose choosing another day. I just feel that it is divisive to choose that day…especially when presented with the word “replacing.”