And so it begins: open Civil War has broken out in the GOP

Just to recap: there is no longer a civil war in the Republican Party.

One side has won and the losers are talking about a third party. All ten of them.
 
As one of those fence-sitters, presumably without balls to be disturbed by the pickets, Oom now perceives himself as a confessor.
Not the kind who diddles altar boys, thank goodness.
One would still need something resembling balls for even that deplorable act.

Did you follow your mommy into the Amsterdam Red Light district, Lick, or are you just ordinary Eurotrash?

59di5r.jpg
 
Hello goat,

Did you see Obama's 29-acre estate on Martha's Vineyard? Betraying the world pays well.

Here's how I look at it. We have this Constitution, our government structural outline. I can't think of a better national guidance, so I support the Constitution. It says we will have a president. It is a needed function. We are a nation with a lot of different viewpoints that we have to somehow consider when picking a president. We all have a chance to vote for who it is. Nobody has any individual power without convincing others to join in a political organization we call a party. We currently have 2 very powerful parties. Up until now, we individuals have had to pick one party or throw away our vote as a sort of protest statement. That forces us to choose either a symbolic gesture or select the party which best aligns with our views. Nobody gets everything they want, so it is ultimately a matter of compromise. We can demand all the perfection we like, but if we want to be realistic and help guide the nation, we have to go left or right. I choose left because it better represents the diversity I believe exists in this nation. I also voice my views and try to help steer the party of my choice, the Democratic Party.

Because of the situation where money buys so much power, both parties are showered with big money from wealthy corporations and individuals. We non-rich individuals are at a huge disadvantage compared to big corporations because we only live so many decades, and they are pretty much immortal, having far longer than us to accumulate wealth. There is a threshold of wealth, above which, great power ensues with the ability to throw big wealth around, most individuals never attain.

So yes, it is very frustrating. Most of us are stuck in this relatively powerless position. Virtually everyone who seeks office in one of the parties is bound to be showered with wealth. Presidents get a lot. It doesn't matter which party. And that's not always a bad thing. The more wealth a president gets, the more likely the lousy job might attract a good candidate. It is already true that talented individuals can earn a lot more wealth in the private sector. And who really wants to put themselves out there publicly for scrutiny of every time they walk up some steps, down a ramp, or take a drink of water. Most people prefer to have their life be private.

We have had some good presidents and some bad ones. Can you imagine how limited the pool of potential candidates might be if the position entailed all the public scrutiny, but no wealth? Well, if you think we have lousy choices now, that would make it worse.

I can't think of a president who was so virtuous and popular that they could decline all the money thrown at them, still get elected and have lots of political capital to be effective, do the job, and then end up only modestly wealthy. Perhaps Jimmy Carter comes to mind. We didn't appreciate him. We raked him over the coals. But if we actually examine his performance, he was pretty amazing. Vastly underappreciated.

America doesn't want that squeaky clean virtuous president you are envisioning. We are far too hung up on shallow stuff and instant gratification.

Are you looking for a leader who says things like: 'Human identity is no longer defined by what one does but rather by what one owns.' ?

We HAD one. He was rejected and replaced with a big money taking, pro-consumerism, 'what one owns' kind of leader.

Kind of a toughie, eh?

We never get to run our country with the presidents we would LIKE. We have to have our country with the presidents we GET. And we have nobody to blame but ourselves. We put 'em there! We can wish for idealism all we like, but we have to live in the real world as it is.
 
Hello goat,



Here's how I look at it. We have this Constitution, our government structural outline. I can't think of a better national guidance, so I support the Constitution. It says we will have a president. It is a needed function. We are a nation with a lot of different viewpoints that we have to somehow consider when picking a president. We all have a chance to vote for who it is. Nobody has any individual power without convincing others to join in a political organization we call a party. We currently have 2 very powerful parties. Up until now, we individuals have had to pick one party or throw away our vote as a sort of protest statement. That forces us to choose either a symbolic gesture or select the party which best aligns with our views. Nobody gets everything they want, so it is ultimately a matter of compromise. We can demand all the perfection we like, but if we want to be realistic and help guide the nation, we have to go left or right. I choose left because it better represents the diversity I believe exists in this nation. I also voice my views and try to help steer the party of my choice, the Democratic Party.

Because of the situation where money buys so much power, both parties are showered with big money from wealthy corporations and individuals. We non-rich individuals are at a huge disadvantage compared to big corporations because we only live so many decades, and they are pretty much immortal, having far longer than us to accumulate wealth. There is a threshold of wealth, above which, great power ensues with the ability to throw big wealth around, most individuals never attain.

So yes, it is very frustrating. Most of us are stuck in this relatively powerless position. Virtually everyone who seeks office in one of the parties is bound to be showered with wealth. Presidents get a lot. It doesn't matter which party. And that's not always a bad thing. The more wealth a president gets, the more likely the lousy job might attract a good candidate. It is already true that talented individuals can earn a lot more wealth in the private sector. And who really wants to put themselves out there publicly for scrutiny of every time they walk up some steps, down a ramp, or take a drink of water. Most people prefer to have their life be private.

We have had some good presidents and some bad ones. Can you imagine how limited the pool of potential candidates might be if the position entailed all the public scrutiny, but no wealth? Well, if you think we have lousy choices now, that would make it worse.

I can't think of a president who was so virtuous and popular that they could decline all the money thrown at them, still get elected and have lots of political capital to be effective, do the job, and then end up only modestly wealthy. Perhaps Jimmy Carter comes to mind. We didn't appreciate him. We raked him over the coals. But if we actually examine his performance, he was pretty amazing. Vastly underappreciated.

America doesn't want that squeaky clean virtuous president you are envisioning. We are far too hung up on shallow stuff and instant gratification.

Are you looking for a leader who says things like: 'Human identity is no longer defined by what one does but rather by what one owns.' ?

We HAD one. He was rejected and replaced with a big money taking, pro-consumerism, 'what one owns' kind of leader.

Kind of a toughie, eh?

We never get to run our country with the presidents we would LIKE. We have to have our country with the presidents we GET. And we have nobody to blame but ourselves. We put 'em there! We can wish for idealism all we like, but we have to live in the real world as it is.
PoliTalker, I need time to gather my thoughts on this so I'm not so abrasive. I'll respond later.
 
. Perhaps Jimmy Carter comes to mind. We didn't appreciate him. We raked him over the coals. But if we actually examine his performance, he was pretty amazing. Vastly underappreciated.

America doesn't want that squeaky clean virtuous president you are envisioning. We are far too hung up on shallow stuff and instant gratification.

A huge pity that President Carter was inveigled into playing cowboys in Iran: he had the makings of your best President ever!
 
... can't think of a president who was so virtuous and popular that they could decline all the money thrown at them, still get elected and have lots of political capital to be effective, do the job, and then end up only modestly wealthy. Perhaps Jimmy Carter comes to mind. We didn't appreciate him. We raked him over the coals. But if we actually examine his performance, he was pretty amazing. Vastly underappreciated.

America doesn't want that squeaky clean virtuous president you are envisioning. We are far too hung up on shallow stuff and instant gratification.

Are you looking for a leader who says things like: 'Human identity is no longer defined by what one does but rather by what one owns.' ?...
A huge pity that President Carter was inveigled into playing cowboys in Iran: he had the makings of your best President ever!
You mean the military operation to free Americans from the fucking terrorists who kidnapped and held hostage American diplomats? That Iran?

I wasn't a fan of Carter; he was a good man and would have been a good peacetime President, but not a good president for the Cold War and a world of where Islamic state-funded terrorism would keep rising until 9/11 and ISIS.

The Democrats were quick to turn Guns-into-Butter after Vietnam. The failure of Operation Eagle Claw was a direct result of Democrat naivete. They repeated the same mistake after the Cold War ended resulting in multiple terrorist attacks on US citizens through the 1990s and into the 21st century on 9/11.
 
Dutch Uncle - if you're going to play cowboys, better not fuck up the posse. You shouldn't have destroyed Iranian democracy to steal their oil, should you|?
 
'Rationals' vs. 'radicals': Anti-Trump Republicans threaten third party

Source: Reuters

Over 100 former Republican officials will sign a letter on Thursday declaring that if the Republican Party does not break with former President Donald Trump and change course, they will back the creation of a third party.

The letter, headlined: "A Call For American Renewal," is an exploratory move toward forming a breakaway party, two of its organizers said. The group is dismayed by what it says is a modern Republican Party driven by its allegiance to Trump, who continues to falsely claim the 2020 election was stolen from him.

"The Republican Party is broken. It's time for a resistance of the 'rationals' against the 'radicals,'" said Miles Taylor, one of the organizers. Taylor, while serving in the Trump White House, wrote an anonymous opinion piece in the New York Times in 2018 headlined: "I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration."

The group first raised the threat in February, following the deadly Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters to try to disrupt congressional certification of Democrat Joe Biden's presidential election victory.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ra...-republicans-threaten-third-party-2021-05-11/


WOWZA!!
I found out this AM that Christina Todd Whitman is one of those 100. She is one of my favorite Republicans.
 
You mean the military operation to free Americans from the fucking terrorists who kidnapped and held hostage American diplomats? That Iran?

I wasn't a fan of Carter; he was a good man and would have been a good peacetime President, but not a good president for the Cold War and a world of where Islamic state-funded terrorism would keep rising until 9/11 and ISIS.

The Democrats were quick to turn Guns-into-Butter after Vietnam. The failure of Operation Eagle Claw was a direct result of Democrat naivete. They repeated the same mistake after the Cold War ended resulting in multiple terrorist attacks on US citizens through the 1990s and into the 21st century on 9/11.

Assigning a US political party culpability for global Islamic terrorism? No way. It's Islam v the secular west, military asymmetry and foreign footprints (not just US at all) in their countries that grows that type of terrorism. It's been a long time since JC. Both party's disposition towards terrorism is destroy it. Doesn't matter which party has the WH. The only diff is the Republican party likes the jingoist counterproductive rhetoric. One exception, Dems take a more balanced approach towards the Israel Palestinian issues. Dems consistently two state, Republicans vacillating like a pulsar on it. I exclude Trump from any evidence on this issue because he isn't exactly a thinker, just a fool outlier and I don't assign fault to Repukes for his sui generis idiocy.
 
Assigning a US political party culpability for global Islamic terrorism? No way. It's Islam v the secular west, military asymmetry and foreign footprints (not just US at all) in their countries that grows that type of terrorism. It's been a long time since JC. Both party's disposition towards terrorism is destroy it. Doesn't matter which party has the WH. The only diff is the Republican party likes the jingoist counterproductive rhetoric. One exception, Dems take a more balanced approach towards the Israel Palestinian issues. Dems consistently two state, Republicans vacillating like a pulsar on it. I exclude Trump from any evidence on this issue because he isn't exactly a thinker, just a fool outlier and I don't assign fault to Repukes for his sui generis idiocy.

Dude, take another look: First, the fucking Brit attacked Carter for standing up to terrorism.

Second, the failure of the operation was a direct result of Democrat post-Vietnam military cuts. Sure, the cuts were necessary, but they rushed the cuts without looking where those cuts were being made. Same fucking thing happened after the Cold War.
 
It actually can't.

"The Congress shall have Power...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures."

The Constitution says Congress has the power to tax and regulate the value of money. It does not provide for any mechanism for the citizens to vote to tax themselves.
 
"The Congress shall have Power...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures."

The Constitution says Congress has the power to tax and regulate the value of money. It does not provide for any mechanism for the citizens to vote to tax themselves.
Agreed on the Federal level.

OTOH, as with most things, We, the People have the power to do so indirectly through our choices of Federal elected offices.
 
Agreed on the Federal level.

OTOH, as with most things, We, the People have the power to do so indirectly through our choices of Federal elected offices.

We can influence taxes, but I do not think it is possible for citizens to vote to tax themselves to receive government services and those who voted against that taxation be denied from using those services. Even currently, people still receive basic police and national defense protections even if they do not pay taxes.
 
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