Younger Democrats have soured on capitalism

T. A. Gardner said:
But at least it's honest about what it is. In a socialist economy, the government either steps in to crush the black markets, turns a blind eye to those markets, or itself becomes invested in them as a player.
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Unfettered Capitalism allows child labor and other atrocities.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
It goes further than that. In order for Socialism to work perpetually--

Let me digress there for a moment: Socialism that confiscates wealth and does no more will eventually run out of money. That's been true everywhere it's tried.

--perpetually, it requires that people be altruistic. That is, those who can do, will do, and willingly give away the fruits of that labor to those that cannot or will not do whatever it is to generate wealth in society. That is, the rich will willingly become equally poor but still work just as hard at whatever they do to generate the income that made them rich.

Of course, that goes entirely against human nature so the only way it can happen is by force of government. The usual result is a socialist society quickly devolves to the lowest common denominator with the exception of those willing to work outside of the government system. This results in everyone being equally poor except those that move into black market operations outside of the government system.

In a socialist society the economy quickly becomes corrupt, criminal, and predatory. Those without a means to move into the black market become the new poor while those that succeed in the black market become rich.
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Socialism by it's very nature is based on theft of wealth. That's what makes it corrupt and predatory.
The free market is immortal. You cannot kill it. Even if it's forced into a black market, it's still there, functioning as always.
Prices in the free market are set by price discovery. No one manages it. No one needs to.
 
Into the Night said:
Socialism by it's very nature is based on theft of wealth. That's what makes it corrupt and predatory.
The free market is immortal. You cannot kill it. Even if it's forced into a black market, it's still there, functioning as always.
Prices in the free market are set by price discovery. No one manages it. No one needs to.
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Capitalism is based on thief of labor to get rich.
 
cawacko said:
For the sake of discussion, what kind of principles would this new system need to be sustainable and fair?
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Capitalism. It is not a new system. Anyone can play...even children. No one is forced to do anything. It is the voluntary creation of products and services and marketed at the voluntarily agreed upon price. It is the only system that create wealth.

It was capitalism that built the cities out of the wilderness.
 
BartenderElite said:
No idea. I just know that what we have now is neither fair, nor sustainable.
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Socialism exists in every nation. That's the part you are suffering under.
Capitalism also exists in every nation. That's what creates new products, makes them cheaper and/or better, and creates whole new markets. Only capitalism creates wealth. Socialism is based on theft of wealth.
 
Into the Night said:
He's right.
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Into the Night said:
He just did, Hugo.
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Into the Night said:
I have never seen you make your own argument, Hugo.
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Into the Night said:
Capitalism. It is not a new system. Anyone can play...even children. No one is forced to do anything. It is the voluntary creation of products and services and marketed at the voluntarily agreed upon price. It is the only system that create wealth.

It was capitalism that built the cities out of the wilderness.
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Roll em dice!
 
cawacko said:
Inequality is an issue. The catch is the only systems that bring people close to equal usually do it by making everyone poor, except for the rulers.
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Which means they are not equal.
cawacko said:
The push for equality isn't new. Marxism and socialism promised it too, but the results speak for themselves.
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That is does. The Utopia promised by socialism turns out to be hell on Earth.
cawacko said:
We can look at China which tried what some called a new approach. There wasn't much of a wealth gap for years because everyone was poor. They moved toward state sponsored capitalism and the country is much richer, but their wealth gap is also widening.
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There is no such thing as 'state sponsored capitalism'. Capitalism needs no one to manage it. it manages itself.
China is poor, mostly due to the rampant socialism within it. The government owns the steel and concrete industries. It tries to build it's way to prosperity by constructing cities for no one to live in, construct grandiose public projects the don't particularly benefit anyone but the government, and try to quash the very capitalism that built their tech industry.

Now money velocity in China is almost nil. Those that can get their wealth out of China are doing so, the rats jumping ship.
 
Into the Night said:
Which means they are not equal.

That is does. The Utopia promised by socialism turns out to be hell on Earth.

There is no such thing as 'state sponsored capitalism'. Capitalism needs no one to manage it. it manages itself.
China is poor, mostly due to the rampant socialism within it. The government owns the steel and concrete industries. It tries to build it's way to prosperity by constructing cities for no one to live in, construct grandiose public projects the don't particularly benefit anyone but the government, and try to quash the very capitalism that built their tech industry.

Now money velocity in China is almost nil. Those that can get their wealth out of China are doing so, the rats jumping ship.
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Russia is an example of 'state sponsored capitalism'.

Roll em dice!
 
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