You Know the Drug War Has Gone Too Far When . . .

Bonestorm

Thrillhouse
The god-damned Supreme Court of the United States is called upon to determine whether it was reasonable for school administrators to strip search a 13-year old female student because some other student claimed that she was in possession of ibuprofen.

Seriously.

What the fuck? And the really troubling part is that I'm afraid that the Court will end up decided that the search was constitutional.

WASHINGTON — The United States Supreme Court spent an hour on Tuesday debating what middle school students are apt to put in their underwear and what should be done about it.

Justice Stephen G. Breyer, for instance, said it struck him as “a logical thing” that adolescents seeking to hide pills “will stick them in their underwear.”

Adam B. Wolf, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union, disagreed, invoking what he called the “ick factor.”

His client, Savana Redding, had been subjected to a strip search in 2003 by school officials in Safford, Ariz. She was 13 and in eighth grade at the time.

The officials were acting on a tip from another student and were looking for prescription-strength ibuprofen, a painkiller. They made Ms. Redding strip to her underwear, shake her bra and pull aside her panties. The officials, both female, found no pills.

“What this school official did,” Mr. Wolf said, referring to the male assistant principal who ordered the search, “was act on nothing more than a hunch — if that — that Savana was currently concealing ibuprofen pills underneath her underpants for others’ oral consumption.”

“I mean, there’s a certain ick factor to this,” Mr. Wolf said.

Without intimating a view on the ickiness of what Mr. Wolf had described, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. suggested that the law might treat different undergarments differently. “The issue here covers the brassiere as well,” he said, “which doesn’t seem as outlandish as the underpants.”

Justice Breyer elaborated on what children put in their underwear. “In my experience when I was 8 or 10 or 12 years old, you know, we did take our clothes off once a day,” he said. “We changed for gym, O.K.? And in my experience, too, people did sometimes stick things in my underwear.”

The courtroom rocked with laughter, and the justice grew a little flustered at having apparently misspoken.

While Supreme Court arguments can often be bone-dry exercises in statutory exegesis and doctrinal refinement, Tuesday’s session was grounded in vivid facts: school snitches, drugs, underwear and body cavities.

None of the lawyers had a particularly easy time of it. Matthew W. Wright, representing the school district, said that intimate searches should be allowed even for the most common over-the-counter drugs.

“At some point it gets silly,” Justice David H. Souter said. “Having an aspirin tablet does not present a health and safety risk.”

Mr. Wright did draw the line at searches of students’ body cavities, but only on the practical ground that school officials are not trained to conduct such searches. Mr. Wright said there was no legal obstacle to such a search.

David O’Neil, an assistant to the solicitor general representing the federal government, tried to steer a middle course.

The Fourth Amendment had been violated, he said, because school officials did not have a reasonable suspicion that Ms. Redding had secreted drugs in her undergarments. But Mr. O’Neil added that Ms. Redding should not be allowed to sue the assistant principal who ordered the search, because the law was unclear at the time.

Justice Antonin Scalia challenged him on the first point.

“You search in the student’s pack, you search the student’s outer garments, and you have a reasonable suspicion that the student has drugs,” he said. “Don’t you have, after conducting all these other searches, a reasonable suspicion that she has drugs in her underpants?”

“You’ve searched everywhere else,” Justice Scalia said. “By God, the drugs must be in her underpants.”

Mr. O’Neil said a more focused suspicion was required. “Certainly there is no practice anywhere, that I’m aware of, of hiding ibuprofen in underwear,” he said.

On the other hand, if there is good reason to think a student is keeping contraband in her underwear, Mr. O’Neil said, “you could go directly to that location.”

That surprised the chief justice. “Oh, surely not,” he said. “You are saying if you have reasonable suspicion that it’s in the underwear, you shouldn’t even bother searching the pack or the pockets? You should go straight to the underwear? That can’t be right.”

Mr. Wolf, Ms. Redding’s lawyer, injected another new term into the court’s lexicon. He said a search may be appropriate if the school has evidence that a student makes a habit of “crotching” drugs.

Justice Souter may have summarized the mood of the court near the end of the argument in the case, Safford Unified School District v. Redding, No. 08-479. Several justices appeared troubled by the search, but also seemed loath to second-guess school officials confronted with a variety of dangerous substances.

“My thought process,” Justice Souter said, “is I would rather have the kid embarrassed by a strip search, if we can’t find anything short of that, than to have some other kids dead because the stuff is distributed at lunchtime and things go awry.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/22search.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=print
 
I've got two kids in HS and have seen first hand the stupidity of zero tolerance rules. Obviously the school should have simply detained the student and called the parents. Perhaps the administrators will now see for themselves what zero tolerance laws can do, when they become registered sex offenders.
 
If it is found constitutional then the Catholic Church may find themselves having a hard time getting priests because they will all go into school administrative work instead.
 
Leave it to you to turn this into a race issue. From what I've seen of your debate armament its all that you have.

The drug war IS a race issue dummy.

Leave it to me to point out the obvious.

I assumed that even a braindead buffoon like you could interpret " .. thus the issue may actually get addressed."

... guess not.
 
Thanks for proving my earlier accusation about you. Wow.

What? That I'm smarter and far more informed than you?

No need to thank me for that dude. Call it a gift.

Now if you'd like to argue that the drug war isn't a racial issue, be my guest. :) It will further demonstate the point.
 
When I was going to school it was standard practice to give kids who had aspirin or ibuprofen in their possession 30 demerits (which meant instant reporting to the school board for a hearing on expulsion).

Possession of something like marijuana or alcohol, which are both misdemeanors in Mississippi, would likely lead to certain instant expulsion.

Which helps everyone out a lot.

Thanks conservatives! More proof that mandatory minimums work.
 
What? That I'm smarter and far more informed than you?

No need to thank me for that dude. Call it a gift.

Now if you'd like to argue that the drug war isn't a racial issue, be my guest. :) It will further demonstate the point.
Again, you're the one who made the accusation, so it's your responsibility to prove that accusation, not mine to prove it wrong.

Prediction: you'll wimp out on this like you did on all the others when asked for evidence.
 
When I was going to school it was standard practice to give kids who had aspirin or ibuprofen in their possession 30 demerits (which meant instant reporting to the school board for a hearing on expulsion).

Possession of something like marijuana or alcohol, which are both misdemeanors in Mississippi, would likely lead to certain instant expulsion.

Which helps everyone out a lot.

Thanks conservatives! More proof that mandatory minimums work.
Wow blaming conservatives for school administrator policies.
 
wow souther tool man, please tell me you like Dixie did also go to bama. That way I can fall out of my chair laughing.
Most of your fellow righties admit the war on drugs is an utter failure.
It's fact that the overwhelming majority of non violent drug prisinors are black depsite being a small fraction of users. This complex (to you ) math is what makes it a race issue. Please I'm struggling for comedy, tell me what shit school in the south you went to. I know damn well it's no my Alma Matter.
 
Again, you're the one who made the accusation, so it's your responsibility to prove that accusation, not mine to prove it wrong.

Prediction: you'll wimp out on this like you did on all the others when asked for evidence.

You challenged what I said without offering any evidence that supported your challenge .. but in spite of that ..

Blacks constitute 13 percent of all drug users, about proportionate with population size, but are 35 percent of those arrested for drug possession, 55 percent of persons convicted, and 74 percent of people sent to prison.

This in spite of the FACT that the VAST MAJORITY of drug users in America are white (8.7 million or 76%)

The rate of drug admissions to state prison for black men is 13 times greater than the rate for white men.

In 1986, before the enactment of federal mandatory minimum sentencing for crack-cocaine offenses, the average federal drug sentence for African-Americans was 11 percent higher than for whites. Four years later, the average federal drug sentence for African-Americans was 49 percent higher.

Rates of drug use or drug selling are no greater for members of minorities than for nonminorities, yet minorities are stopped, searched, arrested, prosecuted, and incarcerated at far greater rates than whites.

Persons of color are typically sentenced to longer jail and prison terms than white counterparts convicted of identical offenses.

Felony disfranchisement laws have resulted in the disfranchisement of 1.4 million African-American men, or 13 percent of the African-American adult male population, a rate that is seven times the national average.

Just one of many instances where racist drug laws have been used to attack entire populations of non-white people .. the drug war was used to go after African-Americans in Tulia, Texas, which has been the subject of a series of scathing editorials by Bob Herbert of the New York Times. In 1999, drug-war law-enforcement officers swarmed into the black sections of that community and arrested more than 10 percent of the town’s African-American population.

They didn’t find drugs but that didn’t stop the prosecutions. The government had the testimony of a single undercover police officer, who had often referred to blacks as “nigxxxx” and who claimed to have bought drugs from the defendants.
www.drugpolicy.org
 
Again, you're the one who made the accusation, so it's your responsibility to prove that accusation, not mine to prove it wrong.

Prediction: you'll wimp out on this like you did on all the others when asked for evidence.

why did you put the last line in white in your post?

I removed the white so it could be seen.
 
why did you put the last line in white in your post?

I removed the white so it could be seen.

Because he knows it's a lie.

I post more evidence and documentation to support what I say more than any five right-wingers on this site .. and I never run from questions.
 
even first time offenders, if black, are more likely to get prison time. When controlled for prior criminal history so that you are comparing repeat offenders black men get more time. Whites are far more likely to receive the benefit of nonjudicial treatment for their crimes. In every way shape and form in the US if you are black and involved in a drug crime you are more likely to end up incarcerated and with a criminal record than if you are white.
 
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