With us or against us

[Beefy]

You're either with us or against us. There is no in between, there is no Geneva. We, the US has decided that we will dictate whether you are on the right or wrong side of the world politik. The United States decides who is right and wrong, and frankly, if you disagree with us, you are wrong.

I'm sure we'll have a great 21st century.

 

[Brent]

I agree with the philosophy. It does not mean every country has to send troops -- that is not what the President was saying. Rather, it simply means other countries must condemn terrorism, and not permit terrorism to fester within their borders -- if they wish to be our friend, that is. Otherwise they ARE the enemy. Any nation which allows terrorists to gather within their borders and conspire against Americans is an evil, corrupt nation.

 

[charver]

I agree with the philosophy. It does not mean every country has to send troops -- that is not what the President was saying. Rather, it simply means other countries must condemn terrorism, and not permit terrorism to fester within their borders -- if they wish to be our friend, that is. Otherwise they ARE the enemy. Any nation which allows terrorists to gather within their borders and conspire against Americans is an evil, corrupt nation.

This from a country which has continually refused to extradite IRA terror suspects to Britain.

I suppose nations allowing "terrorists to gather within their borders and conspire against" the UK is totally different?

 

[Care4all]

Brent, what is the message from God behind "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"? Was this Civil Law or Criminal Law to the Jews? Or was it used in both?

And what do you think Christ meant, when he spoke this....Paraphrased: In order to be perfect .....if your enemy strikes you, turn your cheek? If an adversary FORCES you to walk a mile with him, offer to walk two miles with him? Love thy enemies, as thyself because it will be like burning coals on the adversary's head?

Do you think an eye for an eye was instituted to punish those that did wrong or for vengence against those that did wrong or what???

Also, could you please supply verses in the Bible that authorizes us to go to war in a place like Iraq and somehow cause the direct or INDIRECT death of 50,000 to 100,000 people....and it be OK? I am unfamiliar with any......

Where does an eye for an eye(just retribution) fall in to your support for this Iraq invaision?

Care

 

[Sir Evil]

You're either with us or against us. There is no in between, there is no Geneva. We, the US has decided that we will dictate whether you are on the right or wrong side of the world politik. The United States decides who is right and wrong, and frankly, if you disagree with us, you are wrong.

I'm sure we'll have a great 21st century.

Cry, and cry some more! no Geneva? what a joke! you probably cry about your civil liberties being taken away too.........

 

[toby]

Nothing like taking a statement out of context and making massive, sweeping conclusion about it! LOL

 

[Beefy]

Cry, and cry some more! no Geneva? what a joke! you probably cry about your civil liberties being taken away too.........

Hogwash. The government cannot give you rights, it can only take them away. If you are not concerned with that power then you are a complacent sheep.

Anyhow, you digress. My point was that there has been an obvious slant towards an "America Vs. The rest of the world, pick a side" mentality. If you can't see that, then okay, that's your little bubble. But it is an example of hubris to assume that our role in the world is the only one that matters and that if you are not on our our side, you are an enemy.

Surely, politics aside, you can uinderstand the liability we create in such an attitude.

 

[Beefy]

Nothing like taking a statement out of context and making massive, sweeping conclusion about it! LOL

The conclusion is in the premise toby. It is a broad sweeping statement by its very nature. "With us or against us". Where's the third option that you are alluding to?

 

[Brent]

Brent, what is the message from God behind "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"? Was this Civil Law or Criminal Law to the Jews? Or was it used in both?

And what do you think Christ meant, when he spoke this....Paraphrased: In order to be perfect .....if your enemy strikes you, turn your cheek? If an adversary FORCES you to walk a mile with him, offer to walk two miles with him? Love thy enemies, as thyself because it will be like burning coals on the adversary's head?

Do you think an eye for an eye was instituted to punish those that did wrong or for vengence against those that did wrong or what???

Also, could you please supply verses in the Bible that authorizes us to go to war in a place like Iraq and somehow cause the direct or INDIRECT death of 50,000 to 100,000 people....and it be OK? I am unfamiliar with any......

Where does an eye for an eye(just retribution) fall in to your support for this Iraq invaision?

Care

Are you suggesting we pull back and be annihilated? Assuming your answer is no, what is your plan to keep America safe? Those verses are referring to our personal conduct, Care4all, not the defense of an enitre Nation, nor to even a household. If an intruder broke into a Christian man's home, I certain'y don't expect him to "turn the other cheek" and permit the intruder to rape his wife and murder his children.

We have a duty to protect each other, Care4all. Jesus is saying we should stand firm when we are persecuted and not lash back with tactics of the enemy; He is NOT saying we should just lay down and die. That's a very serious misinterpretation of the Bible, in my opinion.

Many times, the Lord commanded the Israelites to war, including the destruction of "civilians." The Bible is correct when it says "The LORD is a man of war." (Exodus 15:3) Just as I often need to be reminded of the Grace of God, I think you need to be reminded of the righteous anger of the Lord, and that whatever He commands, we may not question.

This is, of course, my interpretation, Care.
I can only follow the convictions I have.

May God bless you richly,

Brent

 

[AnyOldIron]

I'll be on your side when you get rid of your own extremists from power.

Until then I will continue to see both sides as pathetic and sad....

 

[Care4all]

Are you suggesting we pull back and be annihilated? Assuming your answer is no, what is your plan to keep America safe? Those verses are referring to our personal conduct, Care4all, not the defense of an enitre Nation, nor to even a household. If an intruder broke into a Christian man's home, I certain'y don't expect him to "turn the other cheek" and permit the intruder to rape his wife and murder his children.

We have a duty to protect each other, Care4all. Jesus is saying we should stand firm when we are persecuted and not lash back with tactics of the enemy; He is NOT saying we should just lay down and die. That's a very serious misinterpretation of the Bible, in my opinion.

Many times, the Lord commanded the Israelites to war, including the destruction of "civilians." The Bible is correct when it says "The LORD is a man of war." (Exodus 15:3) Just as I often need to be reminded of the Grace of God, I think you need to be reminded of the righteous anger of the Lord, and that whatever He commands, we may not question.

This is, of course, my interpretation, Care.
I can only follow the convictions I have.

May God bless you richly,

Brent

Who exactly would annialated us, by leaving, Bdw? What a crock!

Are you are saying that it is GOD'S PLAN for us to kill the iraqis when the Iraqis NEVER EVER DID ANYTHING TO HURT US?

YOU have got to be kidding bdw.....

The war must be a JUST war and fought in a just manner....IRAQ IS NEITHER, it is a work of the Devil at our hands....because it was UNJUSTIFIED.... and personally, thru the teachings of God, I don't see any other way to look at it...

And the Lord says in Scripture that if someone, one on one, attemps to kill you, you are only to try to stop them, WITHOUT KILLING THEM...cut their hands off in the literal sense...BUT NOT TO KILL THEM....now why do you think we are given that instruction? Because the Lord DOES NOT WANT US to let REVENGE guide us, imo.....because revenge is hate.....and revenge is doing WORSE to the other party than what they did to you...the person only attempted to murder, but did not succeed....thus they are not punished through death.

WHO IN IRAQ CAME TO AMERICA AND ATTACKED US?

WHO IN IRAQ ARE YOU KILLING AND WHY?

THIS is a work of SATAN bdw, and you support it.....and is NOT IN ANY WAY, supported by the Bible or God's word in Scripture....not in who we chose to war with, not in the measures we have used in war, not for the torture we used and inhumane treatments.....not a single thing that we have done is supported by the BIBLE, BY SCRIPTURE....NONE!!!!


care

 

[AnyOldIron]

IRAQ IS NEITHER, it is a work of the Devil at our hands

Let's not let the guilty off the hook by attributing it to Santa.

The Iraq Debacle is the work of Bush, Blair and their supporters...

 

[Damocles]

Hogwash. The government cannot give you rights, it can only take them away. If you are not concerned with that power then you are a complacent sheep.

Anyhow, you digress. My point was that there has been an obvious slant towards an "America Vs. The rest of the world, pick a side" mentality. If you can't see that, then okay, that's your little bubble. But it is an example of hubris to assume that our role in the world is the only one that matters and that if you are not on our our side, you are an enemy.

Surely, politics aside, you can uinderstand the liability we create in such an attitude.

Why do you hate America?

 

[AnyOldIron]

I agree with the philosophy.

Philosophy is not a mere statement of personal opinion. There is no such entity as a personal philosophy.

Philosophy is an action, the process by which we judge the validity and worth of an argument.

 

[klaatu]

Well ..I think its important to know exactly what he meant when he said those words ... . "But over time, it's going to be important for nations to know they will be held accountable for inactivity. You are either with us or you are against us in the fight against terror."

So basically he was calling out to the rest of the world to get on board in the fight against terrorism .. he is saying that if you dont get on board in this fight against terrorism your Nation could be vulnerable to attack as a result of your inactivity. Thats what I get out of it ...

As far as the "with us or against us" part ... way too strong .. and an obvious attempt at gathering of the troops ... Nationalism in its finest hour...

 

[Care4all]

IRAQ IS NEITHER, it is a work of the Devil at our hands

Let's not let the guilty off the hook by attributing it to Santa.

The Iraq Debacle is the work of Bush, Blair and their supporters...

That's precisely what I said....read between the lines my friend! hahahaha! "The Iraq Debacle is the work of Bush, Blair and their supporters... "

Only I said it in a foreign language to you....LOL

(Learn to be more fluent in this "foreigner's"(Christian) language.... )


care

 

[Brent]

Who exactly would annialated us, by leaving, Bdw? What a crock!

Somebody would, Care. If we can't defend ourselves because of a misinterpreted verse in the Bible, somebody is going to kill us. This is a harsh world.

Are you are saying that it is GOD'S PLAN for us to kill the iraqis when the Iraqis NEVER EVER DID ANYTHING TO HURT US?

Yes, I do believe it is God's plan, or rather, than He will use our actions as part of His plan. Do you not believe God is sovereign?

The war must be a JUST war and fought in a just manner....IRAQ IS NEITHER, it is a work of the Devil at our hands....because it was UNJUSTIFIED.... and personally, thru the teachings of God, I don't see any other way to look at it...

How was removing Saddam from power unjustified?

And the Lord says in Scripture that if someone, one on one, attemps to kill you, you are only to try to stop them, WITHOUT KILLING THEM...cut their hands off in the literal sense...BUT NOT TO KILL THEM....now why do you think we are given that instruction? Because the Lord DOES NOT WANT US to let REVENGE guide us, imo.....because revenge is hate.....and revenge is doing WORSE to the other party than what they did to you...the person only attempted to murder, but did not succeed....thus they are not punished through death.

Why did God sanction the death penalty in Exodus 21?

To what verse are you referring?

WHO IN IRAQ CAME TO AMERICA AND ATTACKED US?

Nobody, but Saddam Hussein was a supporter of terrorism.

Iraq wouldn't have been my first target, but I can understand why we're there.

WHO IN IRAQ ARE YOU KILLING AND WHY?

THIS is a work of SATAN bdw, and you support it.....and is NOT IN ANY WAY, supported by the Bible or God's word in Scripture....not in who we chose to war with, not in the measures we have used in war, not for the torture we used and inhumane treatments.....not a single thing that we have done is supported by the BIBLE, BY SCRIPTURE....NONE!!!!


care

What are your thoughts on God commanding Israel to war, including the killing of women and children? Was that not justified? Who are we to question God?

 

[maineman]

Iraq may have supported terrorist organizations, but none that were interested in us....I say again, if we are going to attack every place on the planet that supports terrorism of any kind, why do we not attack south boston, massachusetts for its long standing financial support for the military wing of the irish republican army?

 

[uscitizen]

The bible says God delivered Israel into the hands of their enemies many times for their repeated drops back into idolitary and sin. why will he not deliver them into the hands of their enemies yet again brent ?

 

[Brent]

The bible says God delivered Israel into the hands of their enemies many times for their repeated drops back into idolitary and sin. why will he not deliver them into the hands of their enemies yet again brent ?

What are you suggesting, that we should stop supporting Israel? Israel is in rebellion -- they refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Nevertheless, I believe it is a Christian duty to defend them, because in the end, they're going to repent and turn to the Lord.