Will JEB! drop out after South Carolina?

[Jarod]

Jarod, that's just nuts. But along those lines, I went to a basketball game a couple of weeks ago. It was an away game at a mostly black school. They beat us easily and we're ranked #5 in the state in our class. They are ranked #1 in their class which is quite a bit larger. Anyway, the local "pastor" of the Baptist church announced the game. He was great. They had a Senior lead a prayer (gasp!) before one of their girls sang the national anthem. It was the greatest experience I had had in quite some time. They auctioned off an old pickup truck at halftime as a fund raiser for one of their classes. After the games I went down to shake the announcer's hand (he led the gym in "happy birthday" to one of our elementary students who's sister plays on the HS team) and I sought out the Superintendent and shook his hand. It was a giant Trumplike (minus any vulgarities) thumb in the face of those seeking to change a culture that has existed peacefully for decades in the land that I love. I loved it.

I don't have a problem with that unless the Government sponsored any of the prayers. I love Christianity, I simply do not love the idea of the government being mixed up in enforcing that it pushed in our culture. I don't want those who believe differently treated any differently by the Government, or being pushed to change by the Government overtly or covertly.

I don't like Cruz's push to discriminate against Islam, and his hostility toward non-believers.

 

[leaningright]

I never understood the big deal about prayer. Let people pray.

Though I did see Cruz get endorsed by a pastor that says Leviticus indicates that there should be a death penalty for homosexuals. That was alarming.

Alarming and wrong. But again, congress would never allow that to happen nor would our country stand for it even if Cruz believes it...and I'd be willing to bet he doesn't.

 

[leaningright]

All Ted Cruz has talked about is following the constitution, cutting wasteful spending and agencies and reversing executive orders. He hasn't said really anything about forcing Christianity onto anybody in my opinion.

This is true. But he's a "fundy" and that scares people somehow. I guess they think he's going to go back and force people to offer Old Testament type sacrifices and stone misbehaving kids and gays. That makes them as silly to me as people who are worried about Sharia law.

 

[Jarod]

All Ted Cruz has talked about is following the constitution, cutting wasteful spending and agencies and reversing executive orders. He hasn't said really anything about forcing Christianity onto anybody in my opinion.

Prohibiting same sex marriage, especially for religious reasons, is not following the Constitution.

 

[Jarod]

Alarming and wrong. But again, congress would never allow that to happen nor would our country stand for it even if Cruz believes it...and I'd be willing to bet he doesn't.

The problem is that he is willing to allow people to think he believes it to get their vote. That scars me.

 

[cawacko]

The problem is that he is willing to allow people to think he believes it to get their vote. That scars me.

You're the one thinking and projecting that. What has he said that makes you think he would force Sunday School on everyone?

 

[Jarod]

This is true. But he's a "fundy" and that scares people somehow. I guess they think he's going to go back and force people to offer Old Testament type sacrifices and stone misbehaving kids and gays. That makes them as silly to me as people who are worried about Sharia law.

He wants to allow school orchestrated prayer in school, he wants to prohibit certain groups of people from getting marred (because his beliefs disallow it). He wants to rescue Christians suffering in the middle east over and above any other group suffering in the ME. He wants to carpet bomb wholesale groups of people "until the sand glows", groups he knows did nothing wrong, and I am certain he would not say that if it were not for the fact that the vast majority of them are not Christians.

These are the things that make me fear the judgement of someone like Cruz.

 

[leaningright]

Prohibiting same sex marriage, especially for religious reasons, is not following the Constitution.

That horse has been ridden and turned out to pasture. What does the constitution say about marriage in the first place...gay or straight? If I were supreme ruler I might prohibit gay marriage. I'd probably set forth civil unions as an alternative as I have discussed many times on this very board, though I absolutely believe homosexuality to be sinful behavior. But thankfully we don't have supreme rulers in the US. And if I were president and were too extreme in my proposed laws there are the checks and balances of government (congress, courts) to stop me. Like I said, that horse has been ridden into the sunset.

 

[leaningright]

The problem is that he is willing to allow people to think he believes it to get their vote. That scars me.

Do you think him standing up with someone who might believe something he doesn't (and I don't think for one second he believes in stoning gays) or being seen with them is letting them believe he is as extreme as they are? If I ever run for office I will not stand up with any of my Muslim friends who have the exact same beliefs in right and wrong (morals) as I do but take a much more extreme position as to how that should be enforced/taught. (And no, they do not believe in anything like Shariah law.) But you know, being seen with them might increase my opportunity for votes among the Muslim community.

The guy with the more extreme beliefs is likely supporting the candidate that most closely represents his beliefs.

I know knits need to be picked because become lice but there is a lot of knit-picking taking place here to say that someone "scarred" someone.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

Alarming and wrong. But again, congress would never allow that to happen nor would our country stand for it even if Cruz believes it...and I'd be willing to bet he doesn't.

He spoke right after the pastor made the speech about killing homosexuals. To Cruz's credit, he later distanced himself from the endorsement. I don't think he realized what the guy said until the media pointed it out.

I saw some of the pastor's speech. It does freak me out that some religious people feel that way - he had a pretty huge audience, and seemed to get some positive reaction. In general, I don't understand why so many religious folks hone in on that one line from the Bible, and seem to make that a very disproportionate representation of the Christian message. Looking at the New Testament in particular, there seems to be so much more that is said on the side of tolerance and not judging the so-called sins of others, but we hear so much less about that from some of these guys.

I swear - if I only listened to the ranting of some of these pastors & spokespeople, and I had never read the Bible, I'd expect to pick it up and see just about the whole book covering the anti-gay viewpoint, with Jesus speaking every day about the scourge of homosexuality. It really says something that this is what some Christians focus on. I'm not sure what - but it definitely says something.

 

[Jarod]

That horse has been ridden and turned out to pasture. What does the constitution say about marriage in the first place...gay or straight? If I were supreme ruler I might prohibit gay marriage. I'd probably set forth civil unions as an alternative as I have discussed many times on this very board, though I absolutely believe homosexuality to be sinful behavior. But thankfully we don't have supreme rulers in the US. And if I were president and were too extreme in my proposed laws there are the checks and balances of government (congress, courts) to stop me. Like I said, that horse has been ridden into the sunset.

You are different than Ted Cruz, I would support you before I'd suppo you before I'd support him.

 

[Airstrip One]

You don't pull out of a state race until you are ready to end your candidacy all-together.

 

[leaningright]

He spoke right after the pastor made the speech about killing homosexuals. To Cruz's credit, he later distanced himself from the endorsement. I don't think he realized what the guy said until the media pointed it out.

I saw some of the pastor's speech. It does freak me out that some religious people feel that way - he had a pretty huge audience, and seemed to get some positive reaction. In general, I don't understand why so many religious folks hone in on that one line from the Bible, and seem to make that a very disproportionate representation of the Christian message. Looking at the New Testament in particular, there seems to be so much more that is said on the side of tolerance and not judging the so-called sins of others, but we hear so much less about that from some of these guys.

I swear - if I only listened to the ranting of some of these pastors & spokespeople, and I had never read the Bible, I'd expect to pick it up and see just about the whole book covering the anti-gay viewpoint, with Jesus speaking every day about the scourge of homosexuality. It really says something that this is what some Christians focus on. I'm not sure what - but it definitely says something.

You are correct. And while at my congregation I make a conscious effort to give equal opportunity to homosexuals, adulterers, liars, drinkers, murderers, coveters and other sins (I Cor. 6:9-10) I know the public view is mostly that of Christians talking out against gays. I think the fault is with preachers (and other religious folks who get involved in politics) first but I also think it is a result of the times we live in. 24/7 news. A preacher making a public statement against drunkeness doesn't get much attention but let Pat Robertson make an ignorant statement about Katrina (and he did) and news people are on it like a chicken on a June bug. But again, I think religious folks need to make plain that homosexuality and murder (abortion) aren't the only things that concern us. But for at least the last 30 years they have been imbedded in politics.

On a personal note, I have seen such a push from Hollywood to make homosexuality seem like normal (understand that for me it is not and it is not inherent) behavior in their TV shows. They've gotten a lot more "in your face" with it since the days of Jack Tripper. Broke back Mountain, Glee, and every crime investigation show that my family watches (NCIS, CSI, Bones, etc.) has had gay couples. Used to never see it. A lot of pseudo Christians and real Christians see this as a thumb in their face and feel the urge to give a come back. Personally I just change the channel and miss an episode. And no I don't change the channel when it is a straight couple in an adulterous relationship (which is just as sinful, IMO), I just prefer not to watch it.

 

[Jarod]

You are correct. And while at my congregation I make a conscious effort to give equal opportunity to homosexuals, adulterers, liars, drinkers, murderers, coveters and other sins (I Cor. 6:9-10) I know the public view is mostly that of Christians talking out against gays. I think the fault is with preachers (and other religious folks who get involved in politics) first but I also think it is a result of the times we live in. 24/7 news. A preacher making a public statement against drunkeness doesn't get much attention but let Pat Robertson make an ignorant statement about Katrina (and he did) and news people are on it like a chicken on a June bug. But again, I think religious folks need to make plain that homosexuality and murder (abortion) aren't the only things that concern us. But for at least the last 30 years they have been imbedded in politics.

On a personal note, I have seen such a push from Hollywood to make homosexuality seem like normal (understand that for me it is not and it is not inherent) behavior in their TV shows. They've gotten a lot more "in your face" with it since the days of Jack Tripper. Broke back Mountain, Glee, and every crime investigation show that my family watches (NCIS, CSI, Bones, etc.) has had gay couples. Used to never see it. A lot of pseudo Christians and real Christians see this as a thumb in their face and feel the urge to give a come back. Personally I just change the channel and miss an episode. And no I don't change the channel when it is a straight couple in an adulterous relationship (which is just as sinful, IMO), I just prefer not to watch it.

Cruz says he supports a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. This is an example of an attempt to enforce his own personal religious beliefs upon citizens of the United States of America. It is that type of ideologue who scares me when they want to become president.

Let those who believe same sex marriage is a sin chose not to marry the same sex and let those who think differently marry who they chose.

 

[Norah]

Prohibiting same sex marriage, especially for religious reasons, is not following the Constitution.

Gay marriage is not mentioned in the constitution BUT what is mentioned in the constitution is that whatever powers are not listed are deferred to the states. Ted Cruz is more about the states deciding topics like gay marriage than having the federal government declare it for the whole country.

 

[Norah]

Cruz says he supports a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. This is an example of an attempt to enforce his own personal religious beliefs upon citizens of the United States of America. It is that type of ideologue who scares me when they want to become president.

Let those who believe same sex marriage is a sin chose not to marry the same sex and let those who think differently marry who they chose.

Supporting vs actually doing it are two different things and at the very least, at the very least, he is wanting to use the amendment process and not executive order or political winds of the court.

 

[Jarod]

Gay marriage is not mentioned in the constitution BUT what is mentioned in the constitution is that whatever powers are not listed are deferred to the states. Ted Cruz is more about the states deciding topics like gay marriage than having the federal government declare it for the whole country.

The 14th amendment states that in every area, the States must allow equal protection of their laws. So while marriage is not mentioned... And a State is free to regulate marriage, it must be done in a way that provides for equal access to the protections offered by its marriage laws.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

You are correct. And while at my congregation I make a conscious effort to give equal opportunity to homosexuals, adulterers, liars, drinkers, murderers, coveters and other sins (I Cor. 6:9-10) I know the public view is mostly that of Christians talking out against gays. I think the fault is with preachers (and other religious folks who get involved in politics) first but I also think it is a result of the times we live in. 24/7 news. A preacher making a public statement against drunkeness doesn't get much attention but let Pat Robertson make an ignorant statement about Katrina (and he did) and news people are on it like a chicken on a June bug. But again, I think religious folks need to make plain that homosexuality and murder (abortion) aren't the only things that concern us. But for at least the last 30 years they have been imbedded in politics.

On a personal note, I have seen such a push from Hollywood to make homosexuality seem like normal (understand that for me it is not and it is not inherent) behavior in their TV shows. They've gotten a lot more "in your face" with it since the days of Jack Tripper. Broke back Mountain, Glee, and every crime investigation show that my family watches (NCIS, CSI, Bones, etc.) has had gay couples. Used to never see it. A lot of pseudo Christians and real Christians see this as a thumb in their face and feel the urge to give a come back. Personally I just change the channel and miss an episode. And no I don't change the channel when it is a straight couple in an adulterous relationship (which is just as sinful, IMO), I just prefer not to watch it.

I think you're correct in that it's the anti-gay comments that really get the play in the media. I remember when Robertson blamed Katrina AND 9/11 on Ellen Degeneres. A very spiteful God to go after one woman with 2 huge disasters.

I know what you mean on the latter, and there probably is some sentiment in Hollywood to stick it to Christians. But I also think true artists (and there are some who make films and shows) prefer showing reality and having some integrity to their work - not changing the nature of their product to fit a fantasy of what America should be, or eliminate those elements that might offend some. There are gay couples in America, everywhere. Why shouldn't they be a part of some shows, as they are a part of life in general? BrokeBack Mountain was a great flick. I don't think it glorified anything, or pushed any kind of agenda. It was just a realistic, hard look at what life was like for 2 gay men in the circumstances they were in. That, to me, is what good art should be.

Of course, I respect your right not to watch those things. But it's too bad that some Christians feel like those are intended to mock them, or to push the "gay lifestyle," whatever that is. It's just life.

 

[Norah]

The 14th amendment states that in every area, the States must allow equal protection of their laws. So while marriage is not mentioned... And a State is free to regulate marriage, it must be done in a way that provides for equal access to the protections offered by its marriage laws.

that was just recently decided by the courts in its interpretation of the amendment which im not denying and neither is Ted Cruz, but the main point is that it's another step further away from states rights and an a continued consolidation of power by a central government with the courts acting on its behalf. The decision is basically an example of present day politics and present day social issues being forced onto all of the states even if they object. I'm not saying that this is what ted cruz believes, this is just my opinion, but the interpretation can be so vague that in 10 years who knows who will claim protected status that will then by forced onto populations inside of states that may not as a whole agree and should be left for them to vote on and decide for themselves in my opinion.

 

[Jarod]

that was just recently decided by the courts in its interpretation of the amendment which im not denying and neither is Ted Cruz, but the main point is that it's another step further away from states rights and an a continued consolidation of power by a central government with the courts acting on its behalf. The decision is basically an example of present day politics and present day social issues being forced onto all of the states even if they object. I'm not saying that this is what ted cruz believes, this is just my opinion, but the interpretation can be so vague that in 10 years who knows who will claim protected status that will then by forced onto populations inside of states that may not as a whole agree and should be left for them to vote on and decide for themselves in my opinion.

Tge 14th Amendment does In fact limit a States right to discriminate against certain groups. I support that limit on States Rights, it took the civil war to get that limitation on States rights, but we won that war and got that limitation.