Why will no one admit the way some Muslims raise their children is fomenting terror?

[Stelakh]

What you do is keep a close watch on foreign clerics preaching in the UK, or anywhere else for that matter. If any are found to be fomenting Jihad and railing against Jews then the mosque should be shut down as they do in France until they clean up their act. All madrasas and Muslim faith based schools should also be closely monitored for incitement to racial hatred, they even do this in Pakistan.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ice-concerns-about-tory-crackdown-on-madrasas

You are aware, are you not, that we are not in the UK or France? You know we are not in Pakistan, yes?

I'm going to take it that you are aware of these facts, but it seems from your comments that you are unaware of the concept of national sovereignty.

What gives the United States of America the right to "keep a close watch on foreign clerics" preaching anywhere at all? Even here at home?

Our Constitution forbids such scrutiny under its guarantees of freedom of religion.

George Washington once wrote to Alexander Hamilton that if another country can tell the United States, "...what we shall do, and what we shall not do, we have independence yet to seek, and have contended hitherto for very little."

In other words, if we let someone else tell us what to do inside our own country, then we are not an independent, sovereign nation and have fought all this time for nothing."

Now, apply that to say, Pakistan, which is an independent, sovereign nation. Or France. Or England. Or any nation recognized as sovereign. We have absolutely no right to "keep a close watch" on anyone without their permission. And if we do it with their permission then we make ourselves that much less American because we trample the values on which our own country was founded.

And that giving in to fear and suspicion, which in turn becomes hatred and bigotry, isn't one-sided. And here comes the big message.

If we believe that we have the right to subject others to extra scrutiny, bigotry, hatred, religious intolerance and suspicion, then we must believe that those people automatically have the right to subject us to extra scrutiny, bigotry, hatred, religious intolerance and suspicion.

And that, Moonflower, is very often where war comes from.

 

[Jarod]

Yes, the uneducated and fervent religious groups that hold onto old outdated ideals and ways of structuring a family do promote violence.

Treating women/girls as lesser humans.
Suppressing sexuality.
Corporal Punishment.
Intolerance of questioning the pure authority of the father.
Forcing certain dress upon females.
Promoting early marriage only within the religion.
Intolerance of birth Control.
Intolerance of homosexuality.
Intolerance of masturbation.
Intolerance of new ideas.
Intolerance of individuality.

 

[cancel2 2022]

You are aware, are you not, that we are not in the UK or France? You know we are not in Pakistan, yes?

I'm going to take it that you are aware of these facts, but it seems from your comments that you are unaware of the concept of national sovereignty.

What gives the United States of America the right to "keep a close watch on foreign clerics" preaching anywhere at all? Even here at home?

Our Constitution forbids such scrutiny under its guarantees of freedom of religion.

George Washington once wrote to Alexander Hamilton that if another country can tell the United States, "...what we shall do, and what we shall not do, we have independence yet to seek, and have contended hitherto for very little."

In other words, if we let someone else tell us what to do inside our own country, then we are not an independent, sovereign nation and have fought all this time for nothing."

Now, apply that to say, Pakistan, which is an independent, sovereign nation. Or France. Or England. Or any nation recognized as sovereign. We have absolutely no right to "keep a close watch" on anyone without their permission. And if we do it with their permission then we make ourselves that much less American because we trample the values on which our own country was founded.

And that giving in to fear and suspicion, which in turn becomes hatred and bigotry, isn't one-sided. And here comes the big message.

If we believe that we have the right to subject others to extra scrutiny, bigotry, hatred, religious intolerance and suspicion, then we must believe that those people automatically have the right to subject us to extra scrutiny, bigotry, hatred, religious intolerance and suspicion.

And that, Moonflower, is very often where war comes from.

Screw the Constitution, you are destined to repeat all the mistakes made in Europe if you don't monitor madrasas and mosques. I have told you what needs to be done and what is now being done in both the UK and France. I actually don't believe what you say anyway as during WW2 Germans and Japanese were monitored. Indeed the same thing happened during the Cold War for suspected Russian spies, albeit they gave the job to maniacs like McCarthy who was a zealot.

 

[Stelakh]

Screw the Constitution

FINALLY, at least ONE of you anti-American, unpatriotic bastards had the nerve to say it.

If you don't like the Constitution, or think it can be easily ignored or cast aside when convenient, then you are certainly not fit to be an American citizen, because the Constitution is what MAKES you an American citizen. And it is your attacks on the document that makes us Americans that I find so unconscionably offensive.

I have told you what needs to be done...

You've told me what radicalized anti-American extremists would do, but you haven't told me what needs to be done.

during WW2 Germans and Japanese were monitored.

It was unconstitutional then and it's unconstitutional now. The American internment camps were among the darkest of days in our nation's history - it was as anti-American as you could possibly get. NOTHING made us less American. It was disgusting and belongs in the past to be learned from, not in the present.

Indeed the same thing happened during the Cold War for suspected Russian spies, albeit they gave the job to maniacs like McCarthy who was a zealot.

You have the unmitigated temerity to call McCarthy a "maniac" and "zealot," but don't recognize that what he did is exactly what you're calling for.

Do you actually read anything you type after you've typed it? YOU are Joseph McCarthy, here, Moonflower. In everything you've said in this thread, you are Joseph McCarthy.

 

[cancel2 2022]

FINALLY, at least ONE of you anti-American, unpatriotic bastards had the nerve to say it.

If you don't like the Constitution, or think it can be easily ignored or cast aside when convenient, then you are certainly not fit to be an American citizen, because the Constitution is what MAKES you an American citizen. And it is your attacks on the document that makes us Americans that I find so unconscionably offensive.



You've told me what radicalized anti-American extremists would do, but you haven't told me what needs to be done.



It was unconstitutional then and it's unconstitutional now. The American internment camps were among the darkest of days in our nation's history - it was as anti-American as you could possibly get. NOTHING made us less American. It was disgusting and belongs in the past to be learned from, not in the present.



You have the unmitigated temerity to call McCarthy a "maniac" and "zealot," but don't recognize that what he did is exactly what you're calling for.

Do you actually read anything you type after you've typed it? YOU are Joseph McCarthy, here, Moonflower. In everything you've said in this thread, you are Joseph McCarthy.

First off I am not American, I am British, why did you think that I was a Septic? Your NSA seems to have no problem routinely monitoring social media and emails, where is your precious Constitution there? Yes, a balance has to be struck but to ignore hate preachers in mosques and madrasas is exactly what the Belgians and French did to their cost. We had a TV programme on Channel 4 where undercover reporters went into mosques and recorded secretly the venomous and toxic bullshit spouted by some of these clerics from Pakistan and the Middle East. It was a real eye opener for many in the UK.

 

[christiefan915]

The Muslim religion is incompatible with Western civilization......they do not acknowledge......

Freedom to practice any or no religion of your choice....

Equal Education allowed for boys and girls alike.....

Tolerance of homosexuals

Tolerance of transsexuals

Homosexual marriage

Protection of minor children from being forced into arranged marriages

Equal protection and equal justice for both males and females

the laws against wife beating

Forcing females to wear special attire, being chaperoned by male relatives in public, slavery, mutilation, etc, etc., etc.

Just picking out a few of these, conservatives and some fundamentalist religions think the same way.

Intolerance of homosexuals

Intolerance of transsexuals

Unequal protection and unequal justice for both males and females

Intolerance of homosexual marriage

Forcing females to wear special attire

 

[Stelakh]

First off I am not American, I am British, why did you think that I was a Septic?

Then I was wrong (an admission so few around here seem to be capable of making). I was in fact not aware that you were British. Why did I think you were a "Septic"? Possibly because of the toxic comments you make which seem more appropriately placed at the bad end of a blocked midden.

Your NSA seems to have no problem routinely monitoring social media and emails, where is your precious Constitution there?

Exactly where you would throw it, were you able so to do. The NSA's monitoring of social media, e-mails, telephone calls, text messages and other forms of communication is unquestionably unconstitutional as it violates the guarantee of freedom from illegal search and seizure. And the NSA's actions in this regard are as patently offensive as your comments about "what needs to be done" when taken in the context of who you are telling and our Constitution.

And now, it turns out, that you are not a US citizen, which prompts me to ask, in light of my comments on national sovereignty, who are you to tell us "what needs to be done" if not simply a presumptuous oik?

Yes, a balance has to be struck but to ignore hate preachers in mosques and madrasas is exactly what the Belgians and French did to their cost.

In the United States, we have something known as the "Presumption of Innocence." You have no doubt heard of the concept "innocent of proven guilty." You should have, if you haven't, as the concept of Presumption of Innocence stems from old English common law, although it has of late been considerably weakened in England.

That presumption of innocence means that there should be no preemptive attack or action taken on someone who may or may not be engaging in illegal activity. It is part and parcel of the very heart of our Constitution.

Since I am an American citizen and I do believe in our Constitution, I would never, as I have said, advocate for the measures you want to take.

To do so would be to allow terrorists to make me un-American; and because I have principles and scruples, I will not allow them so to do.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Then I was wrong (an admission so few around here seem to be capable of making). I was in fact not aware that you were British. Why did I think you were a "Septic"? Possibly because of the toxic comments you make which seem more appropriately placed at the bad end of a blocked midden.



Exactly where you would throw it, were you able so to do. The NSA's monitoring of social media, e-mails, telephone calls, text messages and other forms of communication is unquestionably unconstitutional as it violates the guarantee of freedom from illegal search and seizure. And the NSA's actions in this regard are as patently offensive as your comments about "what needs to be done" when taken in the context of who you are telling and our Constitution.

And now, it turns out, that you are not a US citizen, which prompts me to ask, in light of my comments on national sovereignty, who are you to tell us "what needs to be done" if not simply a presumptuous oik?



In the United States, we have something known as the "Presumption of Innocence." You have no doubt heard of the concept "innocent of proven guilty." You should have, if you haven't, as the concept of Presumption of Innocence stems from old English common law, although it has of late been considerably weakened in England.

That presumption of innocence means that there should be no preemptive attack or action taken on someone who may or may not be engaging in illegal activity. It is part and parcel of the very heart of our Constitution.

Since I am an American citizen and I do believe in our Constitution, I would never, as I have said, advocate for the measures you want to take.

To do so would be to allow terrorists to make me un-American; and because I have principles and scruples, I will not allow them so to do.

You do make me laugh, you talk about all these supposed freedoms yet you have a Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act!! Do you seriously think that ISIS won't try to attempt another 9/11?

By the way, Septic is short for Septic Tank aka Yank!!

 

[moon]

Oh, he's a ' Septic ' all right. You'll be getting a truck load of ' groans ' from ol' Groaner. He's up to 3, 014, most of 'em directed at honest progressives.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Oh, he's a ' Septic ' all right. You'll be getting a truck load of ' groans ' from ol' Groaner.

You are the Septic pal!!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Septic

 

[moon]

You are the Septic pal!!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Septic

You sure fit my definition;

 

[cancel2 2022]

You sure fit my definition;

That pleases me greatly!

 

[Stelakh]

You do make me laugh, you talk about all these supposed freedoms yet you have a Department of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act!! Do you seriously think that ISIS won't try to attempt another 9/11?

I do not have a Department of Homeland Security, the government does. And I have expressed my displeasure to my Congressmen and Senators, as well as the President, over both it and the "Patriot" Act.

And do you believe that whether or not ISIS will attempt a 9/11-style attack, I should change my principles or scruples, or allow them to change what I am and thus capitulate and allow them to win?

By the way, Septic is short for Septic Tank aka Yank!!

I am well aware of it. I am, however, capable of turning something literal if it becomes warranted or amusing.

If you think I need you to translate a tiny bit of rhyming slang for me, you must be (wait for it) having a giraffe.

 

[cancel2 2022]

I do not have a Department of Homeland Security, the government does. And I have expressed my displeasure to my Congressmen and Senators, as well as the President, over both it and the "Patriot" Act.

And do you believe that whether or not ISIS will attempt a 9/11-style attack, I should change my principles or scruples, or allow them to change what I am and thus capitulate and allow them to win?



I am well aware of it. I am, however, capable of turning something literal if it becomes warranted or amusing.

If you think I need you to translate a tiny bit of rhyming slang for me, you must be (wait for it) having a giraffe.

You, can be plural as well as singular, do You (singular) know that? Perhaps I should have used Ye and Thou?

 

[moon]

Good read;

https://standagainstbigotry.com/

 

[Darth Omar]

Just picking out a few of these, conservatives and some fundamentalist religions think the same way.

Intolerance of homosexuals

Intolerance of transsexuals

Unequal protection and unequal justice for both males and females

Intolerance of homosexual marriage

Forcing females to wear special attire

Leaving for the moment the issue of how the left has brutally mangled the concept of 'tolerance', how Islamists express their disdain for homosexuals [or etc] bears mentioning. Or at least it would by an objective observer.

The left's own Christopher Hitchens comes to mind.

The comparison is a little strained, to put it mildly.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

I have always considered Yasmin Alibhai-Brown to be irredeemably PC and woolly minded. But I have obviously underestimated her as this is a spot on article about the way some Muslims are brought up.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-children-fomenting-terror.html#ixzz43qFCmYot






​

Because if they were to allow themselves to believe the reality of islum then they have to think about what to do about it. It is easier for Thingy and GayRod to pretend it isn't really happening.

 

[RockX]

LOL