Why the Reagan Democrats departed

:0) Democrats of today can't speak too loudly about corporatism in American government.

The Democratic Party is every bit as corporatist as the Republican Party. Hardly disputable.
 
Yes, I can see how they would blame their plight on the GOP

As it pertains to NAFTA Bill Clinton signed it into law. He also signed DOMA (but I digress)

additionally from your article


Citing Joel Kotkin's work, Patterson adds, "the worst offenders are Apple, Facebook, Google, the high-tech firms secluded in Silicon Valley, a dreamland where the information age glitterati make Gilded Age plutocrats look bourgeois."

I could be mistaken, but aren't these three companies all run by die hard liberals? But, yes I can see how the GOP would take all of the heat whether it makes sense or not.
 
corporations are NOT our government and should never be our government.


They are tools and not the flesh and blood of freedom.


Like anyone with a brain would do we should use them to help this country.

That means REGULATIONS on them that are designed to help this country function.


To cry crockadile tears over the POOR corporations being used by the American people is an idiots persuit
 
evince said:
corporations are NOT our government and should never be our government.

who said they are?


They are tools and not the flesh and blood of freedom.


Like anyone with a brain would do we should use them to help this country.

what do you mean "we should use them", shouldn't they be allowed to pursue their own interests as long as they are not harming individuals or breaking laws?

That means REGULATIONS on them that are designed to help this country function.

Are you saying corporations should exist for the state? Isn't that fascism?

To cry crockadile tears over the POOR corporations being used by the American people is an idiots persuit
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Who is crying crocodile tears?
 
Threedee said:
I like how Pat slipped in the attack on the immigration bill.
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How's that? I'm opposing the immigration bill becuase it's being manipulated to undermine labor in this nation. The author of the article is correct. Corporate America wants more low end cheap laborers to pick tomatos and dig ditches and they want an increase of A1-B visas to hire engineers and technologist in foreign nations who will gladly work for half of what their American counterparts will.

If social conservatives and progressives ever form an aliance based on economic self interest the Gods of Wall Street will be in serious trouble. I don't think that will happen. Both extremes are too stupid and Wall Street is laughing all the way to the bank.
 
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blackascoal said:
:0) Democrats of today can't speak too loudly about corporatism in American government.

The Democratic Party is every bit as corporatist as the Republican Party. Hardly disputable.
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You're making a false assumption here BAC. Oh not about Democrats. You are correct. They are corporatist. Your false assumption is that Republicans are corporatist. There you are wrong. The GOP, at its highest levels, advocates plutocracy and not corporatism. There is a significant difference.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How's that? I'm opposing the immigration bill becuase it's being manipulated to undermine labor in this nation. The author of the article is correct. Corporate America wants more low end cheap laborers to pick tomatos and dig ditches and they want an increase of A1-B visas to hire engineers and technologist in foreign nations who will gladly work for half of what their American counterparts will.

If social conservatives and progressives ever form an aliance based on economic self interest the Gods of Wall Street will be in serious trouble. I don't think that will happen. Both extremes are too stupid and Wall Street is laughing all the way to the bank.
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Mott you are the first Democrat on this board I've heard say they are against the immigration bill. I have read other Democrats make similar comments to yours that they feel it will hurt American workers and wages.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You're making a false assumption here BAC. Oh not about Democrats. You are correct. They are corporatist. Your false assumption is that Republicans are corporatist. There you are wrong. The GOP, at its highest levels, advocates plutocracy and not corporatism. There is a significant difference.
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Whether you call it corporatism or plutocracy, the result is the same with corporations calling the shots, not the American people.
 
cawacko said:
Mott you are the first Democrat on this board I've heard say they are against the immigration bill. I have read other Democrats make similar comments to yours that they feel it will hurt American workers and wages.
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To many Democrats are caught up with the percieved racism of social conservatives who oppose the bill due to border security and a path way to citizenship. I appreciate and understand those concerns but I'm looking out for my own economic self interest. The notion that there are not enough Americans with the technical skills to fill the demands for these jobs is dishonest. These jobs are not being filled because skilled and professional workers can make more money doing something else. They are not accepting the jobs at the price point these companies are offering and thus they want to undermine that labor market with immigrants.
 
cawacko said:
Mott you are the first Democrat on this board I've heard say they are against the immigration bill. I have read other Democrats make similar comments to yours that they feel it will hurt American workers and wages.
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In terms of legalizing the undocumented immigrants, it should actually help the wages in those jobs. Once they are legal, they can file complaints if they aren't paid over time; they can demand higher wages; they can unionize.

In terms of the visas for highly skilled workers - I'm mixed. I worked for a company where we hired workers on visas, and absolutely they were paid the same as the non-visa workers. We did NOT cut pay for the visa people.

On the other hand - because if they got fired, they had to leave the country within two weeks if they didn't find another job - the workers on visas would put in 12 hour days, six days a week. If they were in the process for applying for a green card - well, that took 3 to 5 years; if they left the company, they had to start back at the beginning. So they did not have the flexibility that a citizen worker has to just walk out the door.

I saw it as a form of indentured servitude, and didn't like it. The visas should be linked to the person, not to the company; and the green card process should continue if they switch companies.

We had people who were scared to go work in a corporate office in a different state for more than a few days, because immigration had (at the time) done a couple raids where they expoerted people who weren't working in the location their paperwork said they were.

So there is a lot of abuse with visas.

If there wasn't so much fear - if the visa was tied to the person, not the company - then they could demand higher wages as well instead of accepting a lower wage than a citizen with similar skills would accept.

So to me there are a couple issues being mixed together in the immigration bill. I do think recognizing the undocumented, legalizing them, giving them a path to citizenship will help raise the wages in those jobs. Of course, then we'll be paying more for food....which we probably should be doing.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How's that? I'm opposing the immigration bill becuase it's being manipulated to undermine labor in this nation. The author of the article is correct. Corporate America wants more low end cheap laborers to pick tomatos and dig ditches and they want an increase of A1-B visas to hire engineers and technologist in foreign nations who will gladly work for half of what their American counterparts will.

If social conservatives and progressives ever form an aliance based on economic self interest the Gods of Wall Street will be in serious trouble. I don't think that will happen. Both extremes are too stupid and Wall Street is laughing all the way to the bank.
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American's will NEVER pick tomatoes. Ag jobs are exempt from the minimum wage laws. If Mexicans do not come here to pick tomatoes they will rot in the fields, and if farmers pay minimum wage them the tomatoes will not be purchased. Being only 40 miles from Mexico I see Mexicans busting their ass picking produce while at the same time scores of able bodied men down at the dept or labor saying they can't find a job.
 
Socrtease said:
American's will NEVER pick tomatoes. Ag jobs are exempt from the minimum wage laws. If Mexicans do not come here to pick tomatoes they will rot in the fields, and if farmers pay minimum wage them the tomatoes will not be purchased. Being only 40 miles from Mexico I see Mexicans busting their ass picking produce while at the same time scores of able bodied men down at the dept or labor saying they can't find a job.
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Oh the horror. A tomato crisis. How did we ever get tomatoes before the Mexicans started breaking our laws?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
To many Democrats are caught up with the percieved racism of social conservatives who oppose the bill due to border security and a path way to citizenship. I appreciate and understand those concerns but I'm looking out for my own economic self interest. The notion that there are not enough Americans with the technical skills to fill the demands for these jobs is dishonest. These jobs are not being filled because skilled and professional workers can make more money doing something else. They are not accepting the jobs at the price point these companies are offering and thus they want to undermine that labor market with immigrants.
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What are these other jobs? I am a programmer doing pretty well. There are no jobs that I know of that will pay more. There are some I am beginning to think might be worth a paycut, but that's a different calculation.
 
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