Why does Trump stomp on his own team's talking points?

Controlled Opposition said:
I don't think so. Hillary still blames Comey for losing the election
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Yes, all reasonable people are agreed that but for Comey's actions, Clinton would likely have won the election. But does that mean she would have willingly handed the Republicans the excuse to impeach her for obstruction of justice by firing Comey right off the bat? I don't think so. I think she would have tolerated the guy's antics, the same way Obama did for so long, unless he did something so obvious and egregious that she was certain even the Republicans would feel vulnerable holding it against her for firing him.

As for Clinton's insightful analysis of what happened in the election, I think she does a good job identifying many of the reasons she lost... including ample time blaming herself. My only problem with it is she goes overboard in that direction. As a woman, I'm keenly aware of the tendency for female professionals to over-apologize. There's even professional training to help women identify this self-flagellating (and self-defeating) tendency, in order to fight against it. It's been widely commented on:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/opinion/when-an-apology-is-anything-but.html

Clinton certainly fell into that trap after the election, when she became the only presidential candidate in history to apologize for losing. Few candidates have ever fought as hard as she did and endured as much. She worked herself so hard she literally collapsed at one point. And for months she went toe to toe with Trump (including kicking his ass in the debates), even as he whipped up crazed crowds in chants of "lock her up." And yet despite all she did and endured, she felt the need to apologize to her supporters, and then to spend a big chunk of her book beating the crap out of herself for all the moves she could identify as errors with 20-20 hindsight. You just don't see that with defeated male politicians, who pat themselves on the back for fighting the good fight and move on. With Clinton being such a well-respected woman and such a feminist icon, I wish she could have avoided that trap of being overly apologetic, since it would have made her a good role model.
 
Getin the ring said:
true dat

and you nut-bags better be careful too.

I don't think you realize the pain any obvious liberal nut-bag would have brought on them should by some freak chance Trump be impeached.
no idea who you're dealing with out here in the real world.

Assuming you are out with your anti trump rhetoric, it's entirely possible no one knows , you just troll forums I suppose
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Given the emotional fragility of most right wingers, it's wise to be careful with one's privacy in forums like this. Since few of them can hold their own with words, a handful would just love the opportunity to exact revenge for their humiliation physically.
 
Oneuli said:
Yes, all reasonable people are agreed that but for Comey's actions, Clinton would likely have won the election. But does that mean she would have willingly handed the Republicans the excuse to impeach her for obstruction of justice by firing Comey right off the bat? I don't think so. I think she would have tolerated the guy's antics, the same way Obama did for so long, unless he did something so obvious and egregious that she was certain even the Republicans would feel vulnerable holding it against her for firing him.

As for Clinton's insightful analysis of what happened in the election, I think she does a good job identifying many of the reasons she lost... including ample time blaming herself. My only problem with it is she goes overboard in that direction. As a woman, I'm keenly aware of the tendency for female professionals to over-apologize. There's even professional training to help women identify this self-flagellating (and self-defeating) tendency, in order to fight against it. It's been widely commented on:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/opinion/when-an-apology-is-anything-but.html

Clinton certainly fell into that trap after the election, when she became the only presidential candidate in history to apologize for losing. Few candidates have ever fought as hard as she did and endured as much. She worked herself so hard she literally collapsed at one point. And for months she went toe to toe with Trump (including kicking his ass in the debates), even as he whipped up crazed crowds in chants of "lock her up." And yet despite all she did and endured, she felt the need to apologize to her supporters, and then to spend a big chunk of her book beating the crap out of herself for all the moves she could identify as errors with 20-20 hindsight. You just don't see that with defeated male politicians, who pat themselves on the back for fighting the good fight and move on. With Clinton being such a well-respected woman and such a feminist icon, I wish she could have avoided that trap of being overly apologetic, since it would have made her a good role model.
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I don't believe that Hillary worked herself to the point of collapse. I believe that she is ill to the point that she keeps collapsing and having seizures. But then, I'm not stereotyping females either.
 
[h=1]Al Franken today on Facebook[/h]



It wasn’t that long ago that nearly every Trump tweet included a NO COLLUSION! But those have become few and far between since Giuliani came up with “collusion isn’t a crime.” The thing is, collusion IS a crime, if you collude with somebody to break a law. That’s called “conspiracy.” You can’t get out of a crime by finding a synonym. “I am not guilty of murdering the victim. I merely killed her! And there’s no such thing as first degree killing!!!” If that were the case, all any criminal defense lawyer would need is a thesaurus. “My client didn’t steal the iPhone. He pilfered it. I demand that he be released forthwith!” This is the kind of insult to everyone’s intelligence that Trump specializes in.
 
Controlled Opposition said:
I don't believe that Hillary worked herself to the point of collapse. I believe that she is ill to the point that she keeps collapsing and having seizures. But then, I'm not stereotyping females either.
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I remember when the Fox News-programmed conservatives were convinced she was suffering from some chronic life-threatening condition, a week before the debates, while more reasonable people thought she had the flu. Then, a week later, she showed up at the debates, fit as a fiddle, and kicked Trump's butt repeatedly. By the end of the debates he looked like death worn over, slumped against his podium, sniffing like a coke fiend, falling into a confused stupor, while she looked indefatigable. It was fun watching reality force-fed to the right-wing twits that way. But, unfortunately, they have convenient amnesia about all that, and have returned to playing the greatest hits about Clinton's health.
 
Oneuli said:
I remember when the Fox News-programmed conservatives were convinced she was suffering from some chronic life-threatening condition, a week before the debates, while more reasonable people thought she had the flu. Then, a week later, she showed up at the debates, fit as a fiddle, and kicked Trump's butt repeatedly. By the end of the debates he looked like death worn over, slumped against his podium, sniffing like a coke fiend, falling into a confused stupor, while she looked indefatigable. It was fun watching reality force-fed to the right-wing twits that way. But, unfortunately, they have convenient amnesia about all that, and have returned to playing the greatest hits about Clinton's health.
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I neither know nor care what Fox, CNN, MSNBC or any of the other 24 hr news cycle pushers report. It is clear that Hillary is ill. What do you think is her reason for dressing like an oven mitt?
 
Oneuli said:
Certainly his constant misbehavior dominates the airwaves, displacing policy discussions (which obviously wouldn't benefit him), and denying Democrats air time. So, I suppose that could be it. It worked spectacularly during the primary, where he absolutely destroyed all his "deep bench" Republican competitors, by becoming the only thing anyone was talking about. And it worked, albeit very narrowly, during the general election, where he won a big enough minority of votes that, with the help of the Electoral College, he squeaked into the White House. Is he being that calculating? I guess in November we get to see if that strategy can work longer term.
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And, believe it or not, main stream america doesn't care about these scandals as much as pundits do. I have yet to hear someone in the real world say the word "manafort".
 
Kacper said:
And, believe it or not, main stream america doesn't care about these scandals as much as pundits do. I have yet to hear someone in the real world say the word "manafort".
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Correct, and we would not know it from political forums, but in a recent Gallup Poll, Russia did not even make the list of issues which concern Americans.

It is a meaningless aside, but it just occurred to me that in real life, I have never seen a person wearing a MAGA hat.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I'm going to go with Door #2 -- Trump does this stuff, over and over again, deliberately to show that "You're not the boss of me". All of his life he has believed that he is above the law, above following the rules, above the restrictions that us petty peons adhere to. His money allows him to buy his way out of troubles, time and again, so he has never had to deal with true legal jeopardy. Until now. The Mueller investigation is the closest he's come to true jeopardy. He won't be able to buy his way out this time, and that's why he is obsessed with Mueller and the "witch hunt."

ETA: Have you lived in NYC a long time? What's the general view of Trump from your associates?
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And Trump LOVES being the center of attention.. any kind of attention.
 
kudzu said:
And Trump LOVES being the center of attention.. any kind of attention.
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Absolutely. He pisses and moans about the media constantly, but that's more to keep his base riled up and distrusting of them than it is any real angst on his part.
 
Kacper said:
When I hear someone say it I will let you know. So far crickets.
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No problemo.

I must hang out with a more intelligent, more involved group of people than you...because I hear the name "Manafort" mentioned often. His trial is mentioned often also...as well as the ramifications of both on the condition of the Republic. FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE POLITICAL DIVIDE, I might mention.

So...the intellectual focus of our friends and acquaintances must be different.

I notice that Controlled Opposition mentioned not seeing anyone with a MAGA hat. I see one once or twice a week...every week...in the golfing groups that play at our course. Perhaps that is because MAGA hats ARE golfing hats.
 
Frank Apisa said:
No problemo.

I must hang out with a more intelligent, more involved group of people than you...because I hear the name "Manafort" mentioned often. His trial is mentioned often also...as well as the ramifications of both on the condition of the Republic. FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE POLITICAL DIVIDE, I might mention.

So...the intellectual focus of our friends and acquaintances must be different.

I notice that Controlled Opposition mentioned not seeing anyone with a MAGA hat. I see one once or twice a week...every week...in the golfing groups that play at our course. Perhaps that is because MAGA hats ARE golfing hats.
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It doesn't make you more intelligent to be a pointless gossip with OCD, but when I hear people speak politics it is Trump/Clinton, not parroting Rachel Maddow talking points of the day
 
Kacper said:
It doesn't make you more intelligent to be a pointless gossip with OCD, but when I hear people speak politics it is Trump/Clinton, not parroting Rachel Maddow talking points of the day
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Okay...if that makes you feel better about the group you hang with...

...once again, no problemo.

I guess there are some assholes still obsessing about "Clinton"...and calling others out on OCD...but I would hope they are few and far between. Since that is what you see, however, I guess you must attract them.
 
Controlled Opposition said:
I neither know nor care what Fox, CNN, MSNBC or any of the other 24 hr news cycle pushers report. It is clear that Hillary is ill.
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I can only go with what I see. Especially during the 2016 campaign, she had a very active public schedule, with pretty much daily appearances. During that time she seemed to display symptoms of illness no more often than one would expect for a typical person her age undergoing a stressful routine with huge amounts of opportunities for picking up viruses.

This actually reminds me a lot of what I've read about the 1996 campaign, when Bill Clinton repeatedly suffered from hoarseness, and Republican operatives floated the rumor that he had AIDS and was dying. Of course, now we know he's still around and active over twenty years later, but the point wasn't to offer a theory that would convince any reasonable people -- just something that would convince the conservative base.

As for Trump, he has long struck me as someone suffering from a progressive illness of some sort. He becomes easily confused and agitated, and visibly suffers in forums where some level of endurance is necessary, whether that's lengthy standing during a debate, or traveling from place to place without the use of a vehicle (such as during the events when other world leaders walk and he requires a golf cart to transport his bloated mass to the next location).

What do you think is her reason for dressing like an oven mitt?
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I have no idea what you mean.
 
Kacper said:
And, believe it or not, main stream america doesn't care about these scandals as much as pundits do. I have yet to hear someone in the real world say the word "manafort".
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Most people in the "real world" are very, very poorly read, and so they probably don't bring up Manafort because they're only vaguely aware of who he is. You could probably find a lot more people who could identify the winner of the last season of "America's Got Talent" than the VP, much less a former campaign chair in trouble for financial dealings they wouldn't understand without a ton of effort.
 
Controlled Opposition said:
Correct, and we would not know it from political forums, but in a recent Gallup Poll, Russia did not even make the list of issues which concern Americans.

It is a meaningless aside, but it just occurred to me that in real life, I have never seen a person wearing a MAGA hat.
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Interesting. I can't recall ever seeing anyone in person with such a hat, either. However, I thought that might have more to do with my immediate surroundings -- as far as the typical person in my neighborhood is concerned, someone wearing a MAGA hat may as well be wearing a hat that says "I'm a moron... and also kind of racist." Even the Trump supporters in the area are probably loathe to self-identify that way.
 
Oneuli said:
One odd thing about Trump is the way he seems to go out of his way to demolish the carefully assembled apologetics of his own staff. It happens again and again, but I'll give one example so it's clear what I'm talking about.

After Trump's surprise firing of Comey, his staff scrambled for an acceptable explanation. They were smart enough to realize that firing the head of the FBI at a time when he was investigating election interference that seemed to implicate the president would look like obstruction of justice. Trump hadn't given them advance warning, so they didn't have a chance to get out ahead of that with a media playbook, but within a day or so, they'd settled on the talking point that it had nothing to do with the Russia thing, and instead was about the misbehavior Rosenstein had highlighted, involving Comey abusing his office to hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign. For a last-second phony justification, it was pretty clever: Rosenstein's memo cited facts liberals couldn't dispute, and provided an explanation for firing that had nothing to do with the Russia thing, so it wouldn't be obstruction of justice. Sure, everyone knew it was a lie, but it gave the usual right-wing talking heads something to pretend they believed when they made the rounds of the shows, and the only thing that could definitively disprove it is if Trump came right out and admitted he'd done it because of the Russia thing.

Well, as you know, that's just what happened. After letting his team humiliate themselves pushing a well-crafted lie to try to protect him, he went on TV and admitted he'd made the decision to fire Comey before seeing the Rosenstein memo, and that he was thinking about the Russia thing when he did so.

The question is why Trump does that sort of thing. My initial thought was that he was basically acting like an abusive boyfriend, who likes to hit his girl in front of his friends, as a way of bragging about how much she has submitted to him. Maybe Trump just got off on making his press secretary, his professional apologists in the media, and all the little forum denizens look foolish, by letting them commit to talking points and then stomping on them for all to see.

Maybe that's not right, though. Maybe it's about more than the sadistic thrill of smacking around those with so little self respect that they're still making excuses for him. Maybe it's about sending a message to others -- a message that he is completely unconstrained. As Machievelli wrote, "it's better to be feared than loved." Maybe this is a way of keeping the right-wingers fearful... if he'll casually kneecap conservatives even when they're trying to help him, imagine what he'll do if they cross him. Moreover, it sends the signal that he won't be constrained by trying to stick to colorably defensible actions. If you want to signal your power, it's not enough to fire Comey for a nominal reason that would be legitimate-- you need to show you can fire him for openly illegitimate reasons, and nobody on the right will have the balls to do anything about it.
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I like what Trump is doing. My life hasn't been affected in any way, and he's telling guys like CNN Reporters to go fuck themselves. lol

No, he's doing just fine.

What I enjoy is listening to the pathetic cries of you Obamacrats. lol
 
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