Why does it cost $740 Billion (Dems IRA) to cap Insulin prices at $35 per month?

Celticguy said:
I agree that it should not cost a penny but if you suddenly remove $965 from the cost that will have a noteworthy impact on the bottom line of the pharmas selling it. So noteworthy it would likely force them to reconsider making it at all. Now we have no insulin at all at any price. Not an appealing picture to diabetics.

So, at a minimum, you have to provide a new manufacturer to make insulin and not mark it up to the moon. It is cheap and easy to make so this is not a fantasy to think that getting a new maker come on line but it is a fantasy to think existing makers can absorb that kind od shock to the system.
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It's a valid concern. There are basically only 3 U.S. manufacturers of insulin.

It seems to me, these "rebates" are offered if the distributors get "the list price" for the drugs. These 'rebates" should be called KICKBACKs, because that's what they are.

I wish the pols would share the Math with us. We just don't get transparency.
 
Celticguy said:
I happen to be an insulin user so this subject is of great interest to me.
Look, you frames your comments poorly by hanging it on profit. Profit is not the issue.
Insulin can be made very cheaply (as no less safe) by anyone. The process is easy, cheap and mature. Makers have used gimmicks to pretend to need to raise prices mostly in terms of delivery systems and the newer slow release versions.
But the problem is that prices are now what they are and getting them back down to reasonable is going to cause so e pain somewhere to shock the market into this action.
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I really do wish our politicians would provide us price transparency at all stages, i.e. production costs and wholesale prices. Instead we get gobbledygook.
 
Bigdog said:
It's a valid concern. There are basically only 3 U.S. manufacturers of insulin.

It seems to me, these "rebates" are offered if the distributors get "the list price" for the drugs. These 'rebates" should be called KICKBACKs, because that's what they are.

I wish the pols would share the Math with us. We just don't get transparency.
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the Pharma biz is rife with kickbacks which is a big cause of the lofty prices (yes part of that is FDA approval process which in itself is a kickback scheme anymore).

Best answer is to govt greenlight a new non-profit manufacturer with any copywrite issues written off. Give then the Medicare/Medicaid contracts for insulin and let the current three deal with it. And no outsourcing it to an offshore. We saw what happens to that (flue shots).
 
Celticguy said:
the Pharma biz is rife with kickbacks which is a big cause of the lofty prices (yes part of that is FDA approval process which in itself is a kickback scheme anymore).

Best answer is to govt greenlight a new non-profit manufacturer with any copywrite issues written off. Give then the Medicare/Medicaid contracts for insulin and let the current three deal with it. And no outsourcing it to an offshore. We saw what happens to that (flue shots).
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A gov't run non-profit manufacturer? ... that's the fox guarding the henhouse.

I absolutely agree with you about no outsourcing. And I would add tariffs to protect us from foreign manufacturers.
 
Bigdog said:
A gov't run non-profit manufacturer? ... that's the fox guarding the henhouse.

I absolutely agree with you about no outsourcing. And I would add tariffs to protect us from foreign manufacturers.
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to clarify, I do not want the govt to RUN it. Think of it more like being a loan guarantor a little like they did with Lee Iacocca and Chrysler way back when.

Tariffs are probably a good idea though I dont see foreign concerns taking advantage of the opportunity to undercut domestic insulin makers.
 
floridafan said:
Why are Republicans against caping co pays for insulin at $35.00 monthly?
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Well, if you put the OP and this post together, the answer is obvious. The government is subsidizing the cost of insulin to the tune of $780 billion because the companies making insulin would be losing money at the $35 co pay per month and stop making it altogether.

This is just more socialized medicine. That is, the rest of us are paying to subsidize the cost of insulin to patients needing it. Why should we want to subsidize one particular medicine used by one particular group of patients over some other drug used by other patients? We shouldn't have to be doing that at all.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Well, if you put the OP and this post together, the answer is obvious. The government is subsidizing the cost of insulin to the tune of $780 billion because the companies making insulin would be losing money at the $35 co pay per month and stop making it altogether.

This is just more socialized medicine. That is, the rest of us are paying to subsidize the cost of insulin to patients needing it. Why should we want to subsidize one particular medicine used by one particular group of patients over some other drug used by other patients? We shouldn't have to be doing that at all.
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I found nothing in the OP post indicating a subsidy of $780 billion. Were you having wet dreams?
 
Celticguy said:
to clarify, I do not want the govt to RUN it. Think of it more like being a loan guarantor a little like they did with Lee Iacocca and Chrysler way back when.

Tariffs are probably a good idea though I dont see foreign concerns taking advantage of the opportunity to undercut domestic insulin makers.
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This is interesting ...

"Biohackers With Diabetes Are Making Their Own Insulin

Diabetes is a punishingly expensive disease. In an Oakland warehouse, scientists are going DIY.

David Anderson pipettes yeast under a laboratory fume hood that’s surrounded by graffiti. From a beaker, he extracts a tiny amount of the microscopic fungus and transfers it to a test tube, which he then spins in a centrifuge to separate the proteins from the rest of the broth. The next day, he will inject the protein mix into an electrically charged gel, and if all goes well, the smallest protein will wiggle to the front, identifying itself as insulin.

Anderson is not a biochemist; he didn’t even major in science in college. He is part of the Open Insulin Project, a biohacker collective that is trying to produce the lifesaving drug and provide it to people with diabetes for free, or close to it. ... "

https://elemental.medium.com/biohac...n by inserting,then be harvested and purified.


Scientists make insulin by inserting a gene that codes for the insulin protein into either yeast or bacteria. These organisms become mini bio-factories and start to spit out the protein, which can then be harvested and purified.May 30, 2019
 
floridafan said:
I found nothing in the OP post indicating a subsidy of $780 billion. Were you having wet dreams?
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I'll let that go as Bigdog was incorrect in his position.

However, in actually looking things up on this, I found that the crisis here can be laid at Joke's feet for rescinding a Trump executive order on capping insulin prices because it was Trump that issued it.

Biden Administration Rescinds Trump Administration Insulin Pricing Rule
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https://www.policymed.com/2021/10/b...rump-administration-insulin-pricing-rule.html

That sent the price back up, way back up.

To fix that tantrum of a fuck up, Joke shoved this $35 copay (only applies to Medicare / aid recipients) in its place

https://www.healthline.com/diabetes...nsulin-prices-at-35#Medicares-coverage-stages

So, this whole issue is because the radical Leftists in the Joke administration are so hell bent on undoing anything Trump that they can't see when it fucks people over.
 
floridafan said:
I found nothing in the OP post indicating a subsidy of $780 billion. Were you having wet dreams?
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Not a dime of that 740 billion will be used to lower insulin prices. That's the point. You democrats are frauds and con artists.
 
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T. A. Gardner said:
I'll let that go as Bigdog was incorrect in his position.

However, in actually looking things up on this, I found that the crisis here can be laid at Joke's feet for rescinding a Trump executive order on capping insulin prices because it was Trump that issued it.


https://www.policymed.com/2021/10/b...rump-administration-insulin-pricing-rule.html

That sent the price back up, way back up.

To fix that tantrum of a fuck up, Joke shoved this $35 copay (only applies to Medicare / aid recipients) in its place

https://www.healthline.com/diabetes...nsulin-prices-at-35#Medicares-coverage-stages

So, this whole issue is because the radical Leftists in the Joke administration are so hell bent on undoing anything Trump that they can't see when it fucks people over.
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Lets cover one thing at a time, you again lied you ass off about reading the OP. You are simply a little ignoramus, who without your handlers to direct you, would be lost.
 
Bigdog said:
Not a dime of that 740 billion will be used to lower insulin prices. That's the point. You democrats are frauds and con artists.
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Why should government have to pay up for corporate greed, as again you lied about. The Pharmaceutical companies should voluntarily do what is right.
 
floridafan said:
Why should government have to pay up for corporate greed, as again you lied about. The Pharmaceutical companies should voluntarily do what is right.
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Why do Leftists need $740 billion to pass a law to incentivize corps to ban rebates (kickbacks)? It is you leftist nazi thieves that lied.

You think you're Mother Teresa? Well, all Leftists should do the right thing and take a vow of poverty.
 
Bigdog said:
Why do Leftists need $740 billion to pass a law to incentivize corps to ban rebates (kickbacks)?

You think you're Mother Teresa? Well, all Leftists should do the right thing and take a vow of poverty.
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Why dont you read the bill and find out how totally full of shit you are. Posting a link, which had zero to do with you never ending lies.
Now if you wanna talk about insulin, find out why Canada sells it for 1/4 of our price and Mexico even less. Same insulin as in the US, same manufacturers, but a fraction of the price. If one is lucky enough to live near a border, they can buy in on the cheap, for the rest of us, we are gouged.
 
floridafan said:
Why dont you read the bill and find out how totally full of shit you are. Posting a link, which had zero to do with you never ending lies.
Now if you wanna talk about insulin, find out why Canada sells it for 1/4 of our price and Mexico even less. Same insulin as in the US, same manufacturers, but a fraction of the price. If one is lucky enough to live near a border, they can buy in on the cheap, for the rest of us, we are gouged.
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You think you're so fucking smart, then post the info and sources here for all to see. And don't just post a bunch of clickbait. Post the relevant quotes that backup your bullshit.

How much of those billions are going to insulin, Mother Teresa? :palm:
 
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