Who belives President Obama is a Socialist?

Jarod said:
Saying President Obama is a Socialist is akin to calling Bush a Natzi, sure President Obama is closer to a socialist than say Musillini, but he is not anywhere close to Hugo Chavez....

Just like Bush was, on a scale, closer to Musilini, than say Chavez


It ends up being silly name callilng for those not intelegent enough to have a real discussion. Its a buzz word.
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Bush, closer to Mussolini than to Chavez...? You come across as a moron just for that stupid remark alone....Bush happened to be an excellent President presiding over a growing and successful economy, with unemployment averaging about 4.5% for 7 fuckin' years....a success by ANY yardstick....

The fact that you drink the Koolade and refuse to admit that a Democratic Congress along with Barney Frank and the gang screwed the pooch trying to give mortgages to losers is what caused the housing collapse not withstanding....

Obama IS A SOCIALIST....not the Nazi kind and not the Soviet kind...but by US political measure .....its just an undeniable truth
 
Damocles said:
Great, explain to me why such incremental plans to work towards government controlled health care isn't working towards at least partial "socialism".
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In post #32 you wrote,
Tell them why you believe that none of these programs can lead to any sort of socialism, or even any partial socialism like Canada's Single Payer system where the government actually made private health care illegal... Tell them why that couldn't be considered socialism when the man himself says he is working towards exactly that solution.
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If we take a look at the definition of Socialism as linked in post #5 we see Socialism encompasses a lot more than medical care. If we claim someone is a Socialist because they believe in universal health care we can say those who proposed/built interstate highways were Socialists.

People who proposed/implemented Police forces, public parks, fire departments....there is an endless list of things one can say are Socialist endeavors.

Considering Canada has had a universal health care system since the late 70's (40+ years) Canadians are definitely slow if Socialism was their goal.

As others have noted "Socialism" is the buzz word. The strange thing about all this is "family" is revered and universally recognized as the most important structure in society and there's few things more "Socialist" than family.



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Damocles said:
I gave specifics and spoke to why I think your argument is fallacious and all you give me is more of the same argument, now it's "But they say socialist and you're supposed to be yelling at them for it!"

Great, explain to me why such incremental plans to work towards government controlled health care isn't working towards at least partial "socialism".

I'm asking you to actually think and give specifics, for that purpose I chose a specific program that was promoted by Obama on his campaign as the first step in an incremental program where government would be the only "insurance" that anybody will ever have. Tell me how it is that I can't use "socialism" in such a context, do it without saying "because it isn't" or some other childish nonsense. (I hope I draw you when the "JPP Cup" starts.)
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apple0154 said:
In post #32 you wrote,

If we take a look at the definition of Socialism as linked in post #5 we see Socialism encompasses a lot more than medical care. If we claim someone is a Socialist because they believe in universal health care we can say those who proposed/built interstate highways were Socialists.

People who proposed/implemented Police forces, public parks, fire departments....there is an endless list of things one can say are Socialist endeavors.

Considering Canada has had a universal health care system since the late 70's (40+ years) Canadians are definitely slow if Socialism was their goal.

As others have noted "Socialism" is the buzz word. The strange thing about all this is "family" is revered and universally recognized as the most important structure in society and there's few things more "Socialist" than family.



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I explained in P.#36 what I think it means to be a socialist according to US politics....
Its not the same as Nazi Germany socialism
Its not the same as the Soviet Union socialism
Its not the same as the socialism of Sweden or Denmark....

but they are all forms and aspects of 'socialism' nevertheless....

We in the US have our own brand of 'socialism' and Obama is a socialist of that "brand".....and his goal of "redistributing the wealth" and "government controlled healthcare" is US Socialism....our very own brand.
 
Bender Bending Rodriguez said:
Is he a socialist? No, he's an idiot. He's done some socialist things though (the biggest glaring example is the takeover of GM).
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If his ultimate goal were to make it the state car company, sure. However, since the goal was more to insure that the American economy was hurt as little as possible, it was more mercantile. However, I'd argue it's one of the few examples where mercantile logic holds ground. If American car companies can't fail, it's a huge detriment to foreign competition, and boosts American jobs. America, being the most powerful country in the world, is probably the only nation that could pull this shit off. But while we are powerful we may as well abuse it. The nations that come next are going to beat the shit out of us anyway.
 
bravo said:
I explained in P.#36 what I think it means to be a socialist according to US politics....
Its not the same as Nazi Germany socialism
Its not the same as the Soviet Union socialism
Its not the same as the socialism of Sweden or Denmark....

but they are all forms and aspects of 'socialism' nevertheless....

We in the US have our own brand of 'socialism' and Obama is a socialist of that "brand".....and his goal of "redistributing the wealth" and "government controlled healthcare" is US Socialism....our very own brand.
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Uhhh yea....more correctly. US Right wing definition of socialism. Anyone who doesn't walk in lock step with the good ole boys is a socialist.

Ya know I think it's a paranoid joke. Do ya'll look under your bed at night to make sure there's not a socialist under neath it?

Do you thank the good lord above that Jesus was a free market capitalist?

I mean do ya'll think that government subsidies to anyone but Banks, Farmers and Corporations is creeping socialism? LOL
 
apple0154 said:
If we take a look at the definition of Socialism as linked in post #5 we see Socialism encompasses a lot more than medical care. If we claim someone is a Socialist because they believe in universal health care we can say those who proposed/built interstate highways were Socialists.

People who proposed/implemented Police forces, public parks, fire departments....there is an endless list of things one can say are Socialist endeavors.

Considering Canada has had a universal health care system since the late 70's (40+ years) Canadians are definitely slow if Socialism was their goal.

As others have noted "Socialism" is the buzz word. The strange thing about all this is "family" is revered and universally recognized as the most important structure in society and there's few things more "Socialist" than family.
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Which seems to be the same argument I spoke about earlier... It isn't yet... so you can't say it. It's like nobody can see shades unless they are criticizing... Incrementally working towards a goal doesn't mean you aren't working towards that end.

And if you don't know the difference between family and government then you need a shrink.
 
Damocles said:
Which seems to be the same argument I spoke about earlier... It isn't yet... so you can't say it. It's like nobody can see shades unless they are criticizing... Incrementally working towards a goal doesn't mean you aren't working towards that end.
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What evidence is there to suspect Obama is working towards any end? People talk about the health care when almost every first world nation has a health care policy. Are they all socialist nations?

And if you don't know the difference between family and government then you need a shrink.
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The point is every time the government tries to help the citizens people scream Socialism! The irony is people complain about taxes and say the government never does anything for them.

There is not one nation that has a medical plan where the people want it discontinued. Not one nation.

This idea socialism is some bogeyman is nonsense. The countries people state as examples (Germany, Cuba, Russia) have nothing to do with Socialism. If one wants to talk about socialism many European countries are examples and the people have democratically chosen such a government.

Socialism is not loss of freedom. Socialism is getting the government to work for the people. Dictators taking over a socialist country will result in a dictatorship. Democratically elected representatives governing a socialist country will result in a free, democratic country. Why do people have such difficulty understanding socialism is not the problem?
 
AssHatZombie said:
But one can switch to a different plan, from a different company. When the government has a monopoly on healthcare, there is no recourse, and no means death.
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But one can switch to a different plan, from a different company....IF they have money.

If the government has a responsibility or even an interest in protecting the lives of citizens it follows it's in the interest of government to provide medical treatments.
 
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