White House Gives In On Bush Tax Cuts

[Cancel 2016.2]

It is amazing how many people on all sides of the political spectrum like that plan. Only a few hacks come back with feeble attempts to bash it.

Personally, as I have stated in the past, I would add a second bracket to my flat tax w/SD plan.

Anything over $1mm (again, arbitrary number) would pay an additional 10% income tax (for a total of 30% on a million plus). Every dollar that extra 10% brought in would go to paying down the debt.

Nigel... to address your 'not progressive enough'... the above is an addition I posted that you might have missed.

I know THAT the IDIOTS in DC are not LIKELY to pass something like this. I SAID that already. The point is... we the people CANNOT dismiss ideas like this just because we dont think the IDIOTS in DC will PASS them. We need to force THEM to PASS them. (that was random caps.... every other time it was done for emphasis on the particular word as tone cannot be conveyed via typewritten word as well as verbally)

 

[Good Luck]

exactly.... which is why we need to dump the current tax code for a simple, fair and TRULY progressive system like the flat tax with a standard deduction.

I have long been a strong proponent of the flat tax with standard deduction. Studies have determined if such a system were applied to all income, a rate of 15% (instead of the 20 you suggest) would still result in an immediate significant increase in revenues, while a rate of 12% would be revenue neutral.

Sadly, those who are saying it will never happen are, most likely, correct. First, because there will always be those class warfare idiots whining about the wealthy not paying enough. (They pay the same rate I do! Waaaa!!!!)

Second, no legislator (whom are all wealthy themselves) are going to give up their own - or especially their high influence buddies - loopholes, shelters, and deferments that rule the present "progressive" system. IF the dems do manage to push through a rate increase on higher income brackets, you can guarantee you will also see additional loopholes and such tacked on.

 

[Good Luck]

I know THAT the IDIOTS in DC are not LIKELY to pass something like this. I SAID that already. The point is... we the people CANNOT dismiss ideas like this just because we dont think the IDIOTS in DC will PASS them. We need to force THEM to PASS them. (that was random caps.... every other time it was done for emphasis on the particular word as tone cannot be conveyed via typewritten word as well as verbally)

I was typing while you were posting this - and you are absolutely correct. The flat tax system is a superb idea, and should never be given up on just because we are doubtful the congress critters will pass it.

 

[Bonestorm]

Nigel... to address your 'not progressive enough'... the above is an addition I posted that you might have missed.

I know THAT the IDIOTS in DC are not LIKELY to pass something like this. I SAID that already. The point is... we the people CANNOT dismiss ideas like this just because we dont think the IDIOTS in DC will PASS them. We need to force THEM to PASS them. (that was random caps.... every other time it was done for emphasis on the particular word as tone cannot be conveyed via typewritten word as well as verbally)

Yeah, I missed that. I'd go along with something like that provided it applied to all income whatever the source.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yeah, I missed that. I'd go along with something like that provided it applied to all income whatever the source.

In my scenario it does. No more different rates for cap gains/div income/earned income etc...

All gets taxed at the same.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I was typing while you were posting this - and you are absolutely correct. The flat tax system is a superb idea, and should never be given up on just because we are doubtful the congress critters will pass it.

Exactly.... we saw this election cycle what happens to incumbents when they piss 'we the people' off.

If a plan like the one I proposed were put in front of people consistently and they in turn hammered their Senators and Rep with it. The idiots in DC would see the writing on the wall.

As for your comment earlier about 15% vs. 20%... until our national debt is at zero, I don't see a need to drop it that far, but my '20%' was simply an arbitrary number to begin with... I am not as concerned with what the rate is as implementing the system on the whole. If it is 15, 17, 12, 20 or 22... all would work for me.

 

[Good Luck]

Nice to see all of the praise from conservatives on Obama keeping his word regarding not raising taxes on the middle class.

Or maybe GL still thinks he has raised taxes on "everything that twitches?"

Actually, no I do not. Early results, such as the tobacco tax increase (which still make a lie of his promise considering lower income classes were hit harder by that tax), led me to predict he would be a heavy tax president. My predictions were (mostly) wrong.

Unlike some, Obama seems to have taken the message sent by the recent election results to heart that the people did NOT like the direction he was taking us, and is willing to listen to alternate ideas now. Good for him (if so.)

 

[Good Luck]

Exactly.... we saw this election cycle what happens to incumbents when they piss 'we the people' off.

If a plan like the one I proposed were put in front of people consistently and they in turn hammered their Senators and Rep with it. The idiots in DC would see the writing on the wall.

Basic grass roots legislation at the national level - the fact that it is possible is why our Constitution is still the greatest governing document on the planet.

As for your comment earlier about 15% vs. 20%... until our national debt is at zero, I don't see a need to drop it that far, but my '20%' was simply an arbitrary number to begin with... I am not as concerned with what the rate is as implementing the system on the whole. If it is 15, 17, 12, 20 or 22... all would work for me.

The problem with giving congress additional revenues is they'll SPEND it, not pay down the debt, unless we also push, even harder that the recent election, for a balanced budget. What many seem to misunderstand is Taxed Enough Already is not only about tax rates themselves. Its also, if not more about changing the system so there is no NEED to tax us more.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Actually, no I do not. Early results, such as the tobacco tax increase (which still make a lie of his promise considering lower income classes were hit harder by that tax), led me to predict he would be a heavy tax president. My predictions were (mostly) wrong.

Unlike some, Obama seems to have taken the message sent by the recent election results to heart that the people did NOT like the direction he was taking us, and is willing to listen to alternate ideas now. Good for him (if so.)

lol...onceler thanked this post so he admits he was wrong when he said obama kept his promise not to raise taxes

 

[Onceler]

lol...onceler thanked this post so he admits he was wrong when he said obama kept his promise not to raise taxes

Wow - are you crazy obsessive.

The "thanks" was for GL coming around a bit to acknowledge that Obama did the right thing. It wasn't passive agreement to every syllable.

I'll remember that's the standard you set, though....lol...

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Basic grass roots legislation at the national level - the fact that it is possible is why our Constitution is still the greatest governing document on the planet.


The problem with giving congress additional revenues is they'll SPEND it, not pay down the debt, unless we also push, even harder that the recent election, for a balanced budget. What many seem to misunderstand is Taxed Enough Already is not only about tax rates themselves. Its also, if not more about changing the system so there is no NEED to tax us more.

true, they may indeed spend it.... however, given the state of medicare, medicaid, ss, infrastructure etc.... that may not be bad provided we hound them to do so to shore up those areas and try and prevent the catastrophes that are looming on the horizon.

That said, I am all for a balanced budget.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Wow - are you crazy obsessive.

The "thanks" was for GL coming around a bit to acknowledge that Obama did the right thing. It wasn't passive agreement to every syllable.

I'll remember that's the standard you set, though....lol...

wow...i'm so powerful i set standards on the board

it appeared you did, but i guess you're still dishonestly claiming obama never broke his promise not to raise taxes....

talk about blindly defending

 

[Onceler]

wow...i'm so powerful i set standards on the board

it appeared you did, but i guess you're still dishonestly claiming obama never broke his promise not to raise taxes....

talk about blindly defending

Again, I empathize w/ your desperation. Good luck with campaigning on the cigarette tax in 2012, since it now looks like he's extending income tax cuts for everyone.

I'm not even sure...did anyone even bring it up in the '10 campaign?

LOL

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Again, I empathize w/ your desperation. Good luck with campaigning on the cigarette tax in 2012, since it now looks like he's extending income tax cuts for everyone.

I'm not even sure...did anyone even bring it up in the '10 campaign?

LOL

obama wasn't running in the 10; campaign you ignorant twit...

i don't think it is a big campaign issue, it is however a broken promise and according to zappy makes him a liar and two faced....you saying it is not a broken promise is comical, your desperate attempt to defend him here is laughable

 

[cawacko]

He promised not to raise 'em on anyone making under that. Axelrod stated that the only way to achieve that w/ the new political reality was by extending all of them, and he's about the 20th person I have heard say that since the election.

What I love is the tone of this thread - Obama is somehow "surrendering" and looks worse for keeping his promise. And people wonder why it's hard for politicians to successfully work w/ the opposing party....

Just saw this article posted on the Chronicle website. Most things "bi-partisan" seemed to be deemed capitulation by one side or the other.


Democrats angry at Obama for apparent 'caving' on tax issue


Some Democrats are fuming after President Obama signaled that he will accept extension of the Bush-era tax cuts for everyone, regardless of income.

"Sorry folks, there's nothing ambiguous about this: agreeing to the Republican tax cut plan without putting up a fight would pretty much be the textbook definition of caving," Jed Lewinson writes in the Daily Kos, a leading Democratic blog.

If no bill is passed during the lame-duck session of Congress, the income tax cuts will expire on January 1. Obama had proposed ending them for individuals earning more than $200,000 (for couples, $250,000). Republicans have said they will veto any tax bill that doesn't cover everyone.

Top Obama adviser David Axelrod told the Huffington Post late Wednesday that the administration would accept a across-the-board, temporary continuation of the cuts, including those for the wealthiest taxpayers, rather than risk losing the cuts for people with lower incomes. "We have to deal with the world as we find it."

Obama's apparent decision isn't sitting well with others in the Democratic party. Adam Green, co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, told Politico:

The winning blueprint of the White House these two years is to pick smart fights where the American people are overwhelmingly on their side and force Republicans to fight hard. The tax-cut fight would be a perfect place to start. There is zero tolerance among progressives for Democrats caving on an issue where 98 percent of the American people would be on their side.

House House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., also opposes a deal, with his spokeswoman noting it would blow a $700 billion hole in the budget over the next 10 years. Still to be seen: Will outgoing Speaker Nancy Pelosi reluctantly try to sell her members on the extension, seek another deal or simply refuse to play ball.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/hottopics/detail?entry_id=76893&tsp=1

 

[signalmankenneth]

Obama says he's not caving on tax cuts

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's top adviser suggested to The Huffington Post late Wednesday that the administration is ready to accept an across-the-board continuation of steep Bush-era tax cuts, including those for the wealthiest taxpayers.

That appears to be the only way, said David Axelrod, that middle-class taxpayers can keep their tax cuts, given the legislative and political realities facing Obama in the aftermath of last week's electoral defeat.

"We have to deal with the world as we find it," Axelrod said during an unusually candid and reflective 90-minute interview in his office, steps away from the Oval Office. "The world of what it takes to get this done."

"There are concerns," he added, that Congress will continue to kick the can down the road in the future by passing temporary extensions for the wealthy time and time again. "But I don't want to trade away security for the middle class in order to make that point."

It has been widely assumed that the president would have to accept an across-the-board deal of some kind, but Axelrod's remarks were the first public confirmation of that fact -- and by a figure regarded as closer to Obama than any other White House staffer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/...es-in-on-bush-tax-cuts_n_781992.html#comments


Looks like somebody is worried about getting reelected in 2012. Reading the comments section at HuPo, they want to impeach Obama.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/12/obama.tax.cuts/index.html?hpt=T1

I sent an email to the Whitehouse yesterday against extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich! I also said, you can take back my middleclass tax cut too, if you pay down the nations debt! I said the money saved from those tax cuts for the rich, savings, would put social security back into the black! I hope Mr Obama will stand his ground on this issue!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/12/obama.tax.cuts/index.html?hpt=T1

I sent an email to the Whitehouse yesterday against extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich! I also said, you can take back my middleclass tax cut too, if you pay down the nations debt! I said the money saved from those tax cuts for the rich, savings, would put social security back into the black! I hope Mr Obama will stand his ground on this issue!

another message you could send:

"where did all that TARP money go? Supposedly it is being repaid, but the nations debt is not decreasing as a result..... so WHERE is it going?

 

[Onceler]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/12/obama.tax.cuts/index.html?hpt=T1

I sent an email to the Whitehouse yesterday against extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich! I also said, you can take back my middleclass tax cut too, if you pay down the nations debt! I said the money saved from those tax cuts for the rich, savings, would put social security back into the black! I hope Mr Obama will stand his ground on this issue!

"His ground" is his promise not to raise taxes on anyone under $250K, either passively or actively. As Axelrod stated, it's extremely unlikely he can make that happen without also extending the cuts for those over $250K....

 

[Bonestorm]

"His ground" is his promise not to raise taxes on anyone under $250K, either passively or actively. As Axelrod stated, it's extremely unlikely he can make that happen without also extending the cuts for those over $250K....

I don't mind if we end up with tax cuts for all being extended even though I think it's stupid, but starting there isn't a smart negotiating tactic.

And not doing something before the election was really stupid.

 

[Onceler]

I don't mind if we end up with tax cuts for all being extended even though I think it's stupid, but starting there isn't a smart negotiating tactic.

And not doing something before the election was really stupid.

I can't really disagree with that. Given the election results, I think the admin has shown that they realize they are going to have to pick their battles, and that - at least for now - this isn't one of them....