What would you like to see changed?

Yakuda

Verified User
Someone started a thread on the current events forum about killing or saving the filibuster. I said it was on the list of the top 10 things that need to change in govt. Based on that I that I thought I'd start a thread about the other things that I think need to change about govt. In no particular order

Get rid of the filibuster
Term limits for congress
Cut salaries in half for congress
Salary changes for Congress should be voted on by the people
No pay when they shut down the govt
Require balanced budgets

Are there any other things people would like to see change?
 
Eliminate the 17th Amendment.
Make congressional pay something that has to be voted on by the public
Require balanced budgets except in time of declared war.
Require the federal government to sell off about 80% of public land that isn't national monuments and parks.
 
Get rid of the filibuster
Term limits for congress
Cut salaries in half for congress
Salary changes for Congress should be voted on by the people
No pay when they shut down the govt
Require balanced budgets

I like it.
 
Eliminate the 17th Amendment.
Make congressional pay something that has to be voted on by the public
Require balanced budgets except in time of declared war.
Require the federal government to sell off about 80% of public land that isn't national monuments and parks.

Hmm. Not sure about the first item.
 
I would like to go back to Constitutional order, and I would like to have quality people on the SCOTUS Bench/Congress/Oval.
 
Hmm. Not sure about the first item.
It would fix most of the problem with the Senate. In Arizona, for example, if the 17th Amendment didn't exist we would have one Republican Senator (Mark Kelly would not have been selected by a Republican governor and legislature) and one moderate Democrat rather than Ruben Gallego, who is borderline Leftist.

There would be fewer Democrats and more Republicans in the Senate right now without the 17th Amendment.
 
It would fix most of the problem with the Senate. In Arizona, for example, if the 17th Amendment didn't exist we would have one Republican Senator (Mark Kelly would not have been selected by a Republican governor and legislature) and one moderate Democrat rather than Ruben Gallego, who is borderline Leftist.

There would be fewer Democrats and more Republicans in the Senate right now without the 17th Amendment.


I'm not convinced. You're overstating the 17th Amendments' impact by assuming pre-1913 state legislature selections would reliably produce more Republicans and fewer Democrats today, but historical and structural evidence undermines that.

Here's why doubt is warranted:First, the Arizona example is cherry-picked and speculative.

Mark Kelly won special elections in 2020 and 2022 as a Democrat in a state with a Republican governor (Doug Ducey) and GOP-controlled legislature at the time. Reverting to legislature appointment wouldn't guarantee a Republican replacement. Ducey could have picked a moderate or independent for balance, or faced internal GOP pressure for a consensus figure.

Ruben Gallego's 2024 win over Kari Lake reflected voter shifts in a purple state (braindead Biden won it in 2020, Trump in 2016/2024), not just direct election flaws. Gallego isn't "borderline Leftist" he's a Marine veteran who caucuses with moderates on issues like border security, often aligning closer to Joe Manchin than Bernie Sanders. Claiming one "moderate Democrat" instead ignores how legislatures might select partisans anyway, as seen pre-17th Amendment with boss-controlled picks.

Second, broader Senate math doesn't support "fewer Democrats and more Republicans" overall.

State legislatures often mirror popular vote trends due to gerrymandering and voter turnout. GOP controls more legislatures (27 vs. Democrats' 17 as of 2024) because they dominate rural/small states, but this hasn't translated to Senate supermajorities under direct elections.

Without the 17th, appointments would still reflect those majorities, but deadlocks, corruption scandals (e.g., pre-1913 bribery cases in dozens of states), and populist revolts led to vacancies in ~10% of seats historically.

Today, unified GOP control in states like Texas or Florida would yield two Republicans, but divided governments (e.g., Pennsylvania with Democrat governor Shapiro and a GOP legislature) could force compromises, not automatic GOP gains.

Simulations by political scientists (e.g., from the Brookings Institution) estimate repealing the 17th might shift only 2-4 net seats toward the majority party in legislatures, not a decisive Republican edge, because urban-rural divides persist either way.

Third, the claim ignores anti-majoritarian effects that could backfire on Republicans. Direct elections allow cross-party appeals in split states (e.g., Jon Tester in red Montana); legislatures might entrench extremes, alienating independents who comprise ~40% of voters. Pre-17th history shows parties alternating control without one-sided dominance. Democrats held Senate majorities in the 1890s despite fewer statehouses.

California's 40M get two senators, just like Wyoming's 580K), not the 17th; repeal wouldn't "fix" that

In short, the 17th's repeal might tweak a handful of seats via elite deal-making but wouldn't reliably deliver a Republican Senate or curb leftists.
 
I'm not convinced. You're overstating the 17th Amendments' impact by assuming pre-1913 state legislature selections would reliably produce more Republicans and fewer Democrats today, but historical and structural evidence undermines that.

Here's why doubt is warranted:First, the Arizona example is cherry-picked and speculative.

Mark Kelly won special elections in 2020 and 2022 as a Democrat in a state with a Republican governor (Doug Ducey) and GOP-controlled legislature at the time. Reverting to legislature appointment wouldn't guarantee a Republican replacement. Ducey could have picked a moderate or independent for balance, or faced internal GOP pressure for a consensus figure.

Ruben Gallego's 2024 win over Kari Lake reflected voter shifts in a purple state (braindead Biden won it in 2020, Trump in 2016/2024), not just direct election flaws. Gallego isn't "borderline Leftist" he's a Marine veteran who caucuses with moderates on issues like border security, often aligning closer to Joe Manchin than Bernie Sanders. Claiming one "moderate Democrat" instead ignores how legislatures might select partisans anyway, as seen pre-17th Amendment with boss-controlled picks.

Second, broader Senate math doesn't support "fewer Democrats and more Republicans" overall.

State legislatures often mirror popular vote trends due to gerrymandering and voter turnout. GOP controls more legislatures (27 vs. Democrats' 17 as of 2024) because they dominate rural/small states, but this hasn't translated to Senate supermajorities under direct elections.

Without the 17th, appointments would still reflect those majorities, but deadlocks, corruption scandals (e.g., pre-1913 bribery cases in dozens of states), and populist revolts led to vacancies in ~10% of seats historically.

Today, unified GOP control in states like Texas or Florida would yield two Republicans, but divided governments (e.g., Pennsylvania with Democrat governor Shapiro and a GOP legislature) could force compromises, not automatic GOP gains.

Simulations by political scientists (e.g., from the Brookings Institution) estimate repealing the 17th might shift only 2-4 net seats toward the majority party in legislatures, not a decisive Republican edge, because urban-rural divides persist either way.

Third, the claim ignores anti-majoritarian effects that could backfire on Republicans. Direct elections allow cross-party appeals in split states (e.g., Jon Tester in red Montana); legislatures might entrench extremes, alienating independents who comprise ~40% of voters. Pre-17th history shows parties alternating control without one-sided dominance. Democrats held Senate majorities in the 1890s despite fewer statehouses.

California's 40M get two senators, just like Wyoming's 580K), not the 17th; repeal wouldn't "fix" that

In short, the 17th's repeal might tweak a handful of seats via elite deal-making but wouldn't reliably deliver a Republican Senate or curb leftists.
4 seats would make a huge difference right now. That is, if the Republicans held 56 seats, they need just 4 votes and had like 3 pretty much right off the bat. That puts the Democrats in a spot where defection of just one or two more votes and the shutdown ends.
 
4 seats would make a huge difference right now. That is, if the Republicans held 56 seats, they need just 4 votes and had like 3 pretty much right off the bat. That puts the Democrats in a spot where defection of just one or two more votes and the shutdown ends.
The shut down is going to end because it has to......the UniParty is not suicidal.
 
4 seats would make a huge difference right now. That is, if the Republicans held 56 seats, they need just 4 votes and had like 3 pretty much right off the bat. That puts the Democrats in a spot where defection of just one or two more votes and the shutdown ends.

Your argument hinges on a hypothetical 4-seat swing delivering Republicans a filibuster-proof supermajority (60 votes) to bulldoze a shutdown-ending bill, but this math crumbles under even basic Senate realities and ignores the procedural pitfalls that have defined shutdown fights for decades.

Start with the numbers: Republicans currently hold 53 seats (including caucusing independents), leaving them 7 short of 60, not "just 4". Even if a 17th Amendment repeal magically netted four extra GOP senators (a stretch, as prior analysis showed simulations peg the shift at 2-4 at best, often offset by deadlocks or moderates), you'd land at 57. That's enough for a stronger filibuster carve-out fight or easier cloture on party-line votes, but hardly a slam-dunk "3 pretty much right off the bat".

In shutdowns, Dems don't defect en masse for clean CRs; they hold the line against imaginary perceived poison pills (e.g., ACA subsidy cuts or unrelated riders, as in the Schumer shutdown).

Historical precedents, like the 2018-19 shutdown, where Turtle Boy McConnell's GOP majority (53 seats) still dragged on for 35 days amid Democrat unity show that raw numbers don't guarantee quick breaks.

With 57, Republicans might peel off one or two vulnerable Democrats (say, from red states like Montana's Tester or West Virginia's Manchin successor), but that's far from ending the crisis overnight; it would likely prolong negotiations, not shortcut them.

The "one or two more votes" bit is a stretch. Shutdown resolutions aren't simple up-or-down affairs. They're riddled with policy demands.

The Schumer shutdown stemmed from Senate Democrats rejecting 14 House-passed CRs over extra demands; ACA subsidy extensions and Inflation Reduction Act provisions.

Even at 57-43, Thune couldn't ram through a bill without 60 votes or a rules change, which risks intra-GOP revolt (e.g., from fiscal hawks like Rand Paul or populists eyeing Trump's demands).

"Pretty much right off the bat" assumes bipartisan buy-in that hasn't materialized in any modern shutdown, where the minority party leverages filibusters precisely to force compromises.

A mere 57-seat edge might pressure Democrats, sure, but it puts Republicans in the "spot" of owning the stalemate if aviation chaos (e.g., FAA delays closing airspace) or SNAP/WIC disruptions (hitting 40 million low-income families) turn public fury their way. Democrat voters are stupid.

Polls already show 60% blaming congressional Republicans more than Democrats, and stupid people believe the polls.

In essence, four seats would amplify GOP leverage but would not "make a huge difference" in dissolving shutdowns like magic; it would just redistribute the gridlock, potentially entrenching longer fights over concessions rather than swift resolutions.

Your optimism overlooks how the Senate's design e.g. filibusters, holds, and amendment trees turns arithmetical majorities into pyrrhic battles, repeal or not.
 
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