What do Americans think

[wiseones2cents]

was the reasoning behind these quotes? Were these people for or against Capitalism?

This was after he signed the federal reserve act into law.

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” -- Woodrow Wilson

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." — Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States" — Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)


"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". — Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)

"I have never seen more Senators express discontent with their jobs....I think the major cause is that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices in doing something terrible and unforgivable to our wonderful country. Deep down in our heart, we know that we have given our children a legacy of bankruptcy. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected." — John Danforth (R-Mo)

"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen.There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the International bankers — Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)

 

[WinterBorn]

 

[Damocles]

I'll pick the one that made it so that people with two cars and three televisions, air conditioning on demand, so much food that obesity is a problem are called "poor" over the one that made it so that cars with no air conditioning and windows that didn't roll down, medicine created in the government-owned plants was, on average, 20% false to meet quotas, lines for toilet paper and lettuce where you were often turned away if you didn't get there early enough were considered the province of the "rich"...

Yeah, I'll pick the one that makes everybody's life just a bit better over the one that makes everybody's life suck equally every day, every time, with every ounce of being, and with no guilt.

 

[wiseones2cents]

I'll pick the one that made it so that people with two cars and three televisions, air conditioning on demand, so much food that obesity is a problem are called "poor" over the one that made it so that cars with no air conditioning and windows that didn't roll down, medicine created in the government-owned plants was, on average, 20% false to meet quotas, lines for toilet paper and lettuce where you were often turned away if you didn't get there early enough were considered the province of the "rich"...

Yeah, I'll pick the one that makes everybody's life just a bit better over the one that makes everybody's life suck equally every day, every time, with every ounce of being, and with no guilt.

Can you please try answering the OP?

You can still own 2 cars and 3 televisions and air conditioning.

The food? Hmmmm There is food on the shelves in developing capitalist countries too. The problem is due to inflation? No one can afford it.

Americans are fat because they eat unhealthy. Not because they eat alot.

Cars? The best cars came from Germany, Italy and Japan, all under socialist rule.

Lines for toilet paper only because their economy was left shattered after being the major players in 2 world wars.....They couldn't pay their war debt.

Now, lets get back to the OP thank you. What did they mean by those quotes?

 

[Damocles]

Can you please try answering the OP?

You can still own 2 cars and 3 televisions and air conditioning.

The food? Hmmmm There is food on the shelves in developing capitalist countries too. The problem is due to inflation? No one can afford it.

Americans are fat because they eat unhealthy. Not because they eat alot.

Cars? The best cars came from Germany, Italy and Japan, all under socialist rule.

Lines for toilet paper only because their economy was left shattered after being the major players in 2 world wars.....They couldn't pay their war debt.

Now, lets get back to the OP thank you. What did they mean by those quotes?

This is flat inane. The lines for TP and food where people were often turned away were directly reported to me by the teachers at the Defense Language Institute who lived there and were reporting on current conditions for family members.

This wasn't some WWII problem, it was a constant issue in a managed economy. Pretending that being able to afford two cars and enough food to make you fat while having enough free time to be lazy enough to be "unhealthy" is poor like the "rich" in the Socialist states were "rich"? The cars in Germany are made by privately owned companies, not government owned companies. It's almost like you don't know what socialism means.

As for the OP, I don't care about it, I was posting to WB about the picture he posted where I should "choose"...

I will say again.

I will choose capitalism, even partial capitalism, over "fair distribution" socialism every day, in every way, and without apology.

 

[wiseones2cents]

This is flat inane. The lines for TP and food where people were often turned away were directly reported to me by the teachers at the Defense Language Institute who lived there and were reporting on current conditions for family members.

This wasn't some WWII problem, it was a constant issue in a managed economy. Pretending that being able to afford two cars and enough food to make you fat while having enough free time to be lazy enough to be "unhealthy" is poor like the "rich" in the Socialist states were "rich"? The cars in Germany are made by privately owned companies, not government owned companies. It's almost like you don't know what socialism means.

That's not true. There wasn't any shortages of toilet paper and food before the war and not even after. This happened with the collapse of the Soviet Union, due to the fact that they couldn't pay their war bill.

Tell me. How can a country, as resource rich as Russia, ever be without anything let alone toilet paper? Did they have a tree shortage? Absolutely not.

I think the automobile industry flourished in Socialist Italy and Germany. There may have been private enterprise but there was centralized control of all private enterprise. The Government was calling the shots.

As for the OP, I don't care about it, I was posting to WB about the picture he posted where I should "choose"...

I will say again.

I will choose capitalism, even partial capitalism, over "fair distribution" socialism every day, in every way, and without apology.

The funny thing is that you actually believe you still live in a capitalist system>LOL

But the quotes prove that America is actually run and owned by foreign elites. With only a handful of men calling the shots. Basically your democracy is a farce. But hey, you can still pretend.

 

[Damocles]

That's not true. There wasn't any shortages of toilet paper and food before the war and not even after. This happened with the collapse of the Soviet Union, due to the fact that they couldn't pay their war bill.

Again, rubbish. In the 1990s while I attended that school people who had lived there as recently as the year befroe spoke of the problems with the managed economy, including lines for toilet paper and toothpaste as well as the horrid cars they were so "proud" of producing that had windows that couldn't roll down and no air conditioning.

Tell me. How can a country, as resource rich as Russia, ever be without anything let alone toilet paper? Did they have a tree shortage? Absolutely not.

Easily, they told them how much to produce, gave quotas and managed it poorly. The managed economy caused shortages even in a place that never would have had it under a capitalist system.

I think the automobile industry flourished in Socialist Italy and Germany. There may have been private enterprise but there was centralized control of all private enterprise. The Government was calling the shots.

Fascism (government control of private industry) is not socialism, and they did not have government planning their production during the years of feast in the US. That is an attempt to rewrite history into something that mocks reality rather than represents it.

The funny thing is that you actually believe you still live in a capitalist system>LOL

Another quote that clearly indicates you have no understanding of what socialism is and how it affected people. In what way does the government own the means of production?

But the quotes prove that America is actually run and owned by foreign elites. With only a handful of men calling the shots. Basically your democracy is a farce. But hey, you can still pretend.

Again, I don't care about the quotes. I quoted the post I answered specifically so even you would know to whom I was speaking and what I was speaking about.

 

[Socrtease]

Ok, first off, Germany, Japan and Italy are not socialist counties. They are social democracies with tons of privately owned companies. Second, Italy does NOT make some of the best cars in the world. They are fast, they are pretty, and they keep mechanics employed wherever they are sold. If the British and the Italians made a car together it would never run from the mechanical and electric problems.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Again, rubbish. In the 1990s while I attended that school people who had lived there as recently as the year befroe spoke of the problems with the managed economy, including lines for toilet paper and toothpaste as well as the horrid cars they were so "proud" of producing that had windows that couldn't roll down and no air conditioning.

And when did the USSR collapse? 1991.

Big deal, they made bad cars, but everything else they made was built to last and efficient.

Many were military applications that were later improved upon by the US.They were the first to make it to space. They made a more efficient computer but it was too bulky and not marketable. The made the first radio, nuclear power, satelitte, radiators, ect... Key inventions in regards to the luxuries the west enjoys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ian_inventions

Easily, they told them how much to produce, gave quotas and managed it poorly. The managed economy caused shortages even in a place that never would have had it under a capitalist system.

Oh please. They are not Enron. There is more to it then that. They had the industry, they had all the trees you could ask for.The Oligarchs certainly didn't lack money. They could be the leading global toilet paper suppliers if they wanted to.

They basically got into debt(Not the elites but the country) thanks to two world wars. Couldn't pay, decided to attack Afghanistan, which drained even more resources. They couldn't win. The military men wanted to withdraw because they couldn't see why they were in Afghan in the first place. The other Soviet states, knew they were weak and started to separate. Sound familiar? If you don't win that war in Iraq, American capitalism will also do a nose dive.

If you want to talk about mismanagement. Talk about capitalist banks and wall street.

Too bad the currencies are not backed by real wealth(like gold) or Russia would be the richest nation on the earth. That's where America gets its edge. Money made out of thin air(backed by debt). WOW! What a great political system(note sarcasm). The empire built on nothing!

There is no logical reason why the Soviet Union could have collapsed economically. Though considering the fact, it was built on credit(European banks financed the Bolshevik revolution). And considering they incurred the most damage and the loss of most men in both world wars? I would conclude that they were in debt over their head by the creditors.

Therefore the country went bankrupt. Not the Oligarchs. The Oligarchs fled to places like England, USA, France, with wagon loads of wealth.....


Fascism (government control of private industry) is not socialism, and they did not have government planning their production during the years of feast in the US. That is an attempt to rewrite history into something that mocks reality rather than represents it.


Another quote that clearly indicates you have no understanding of what socialism is and how it affected people. In what way does the government own the means of production?



Again, I don't care about the quotes. I quoted the post I answered specifically so even you would know to whom I was speaking and what I was speaking about.[/QUOTE]

Government control of private industry is more socialist then capitalist.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Ok, first off, Germany, Japan and Italy are not socialist counties. They are social democracies with tons of privately owned companies. Second, Italy does NOT make some of the best cars in the world. They are fast, they are pretty, and they keep mechanics employed wherever they are sold. If the British and the Italians made a car together it would never run from the mechanical and electric problems.

One of the best built cars in the world, Volkswagon was state run.

The Italians specialize in speed. Ferrari, Lambourgini, Pagani Zonda R

Define socialist, define capitalist. Most of the necessities were controlled by the government(Hydro, Gas, ect..), though private companies in other industries were allowed.

The countries ran on a system of credit. Yes. And eventually the capitalist elites(The creditors) became very powerful and are now trying to privatize government industry.

A small group of individuals will soon control the entire world. I'm not sure if you can call that capitalism.....

 

[Damocles]

And when did the USSR collapse? 1991.

Big deal, they made bad cars, but everything else they made was built to last and efficient.

Many were military applications that were later improved upon by the US.They were the first to make it to space. They made a more efficient computer but it was too bulky and not marketable. The made the first radio, nuclear power, satelitte, radiators, ect... Key inventions in regards to the luxuries the west enjoys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ian_inventions




Oh please. They are not Enron. There is more to it then that. They had the industry, they had all the trees you could ask for.The Oligarchs certainly didn't lack money. They could be the leading global toilet paper suppliers if they wanted to.

They basically got into debt(Not the elites but the country) thanks to two world wars. Couldn't pay, decided to attack Afghanistan, which drained even more resources. They couldn't win. The military men wanted to withdraw because they couldn't see why they were in Afghan in the first place. The other Soviet states, knew they were weak and started to separate. Sound familiar? If you don't win that war in Iraq, American capitalism will also do a nose dive.

If you want to talk about mismanagement. Talk about capitalist banks and wall street.

Too bad the currencies are not backed by real wealth(like gold) or Russia would be the richest nation on the earth. That's where America gets its edge. Money made out of thin air(backed by debt). WOW! What a great political system(note sarcasm). The empire built on nothing!

There is no logical reason why the Soviet Union could have collapsed economically. Though considering the fact, it was built on credit(European banks financed the Bolshevik revolution). And considering they incurred the most damage and the loss of most men in both world wars? I would conclude that they were in debt over their head by the creditors.

Therefore the country went bankrupt. Not the Oligarchs. The Oligarchs fled to places like England, USA, France, with wagon loads of wealth.....


Fascism (government control of private industry) is not socialism, and they did not have government planning their production during the years of feast in the US. That is an attempt to rewrite history into something that mocks reality rather than represents it.


Another quote that clearly indicates you have no understanding of what socialism is and how it affected people. In what way does the government own the means of production?



Again, I don't care about the quotes. I quoted the post I answered specifically so even you would know to whom I was speaking and what I was speaking about.

Government control of private industry is more socialist then capitalist.

Um... No. The USSR collapsed after I got out of the military. And no. Everything else they built was about the same. Their VTOL airplanes fell in the ocean about 15% of the time they did take of landing from their "aircraft carrier" which was a piece of junk...

Everything they did was pretty much full of phail. Their claim to an effective military, including with nukes, was that they had A LOT of it, so though the tanks only worked sporadically they had four times what we had.

Now, their rockets had a bit more power than ours and were somewhat effective (even a broken clock is right twice a day) and there were some inventions that we use, but the West never relied on their manufacture. In order to feed people, at their height of power, they (incredibly) had to purchase food from the US even though they had more arable land than the US by a long shot.

While they had lots of trees they also had a poorly managed centralized economy with little incentive and drive and people had to wait in lines for the simplest of items, even during the best of times. I know you don't like that reality and wish to "pish" it off, but it is reality.

I will again state: I will take the choice that created a class of "poor" with three televisions, two cars, air conditioning, cable TV, video games, $100 sneakers... (I could go on but it is unnecessary) over the choice that produced "rich" people with 800 SQ Ft Apartments, (unless they purchased in the black market which was capitalist) standing in lines for the simplest of products and who were often turned away if they hadn't gotten there early enough, who if they were incredibly lucky and finally got to the head of the line could purchase an automobile that the poorest of Americans wouldn't buy that had windows that were never designed to roll down and no air conditioning...

Government control of private industry is fascist, not socialist. You again make it clear you have no idea what socialism is.

Now, in the last two years while I was in the military the USSR began to allow a portion of farm land to be used as a personal garden and sold separately. Amazingly this small portion of farmland (maybe 5% of the land) produced the same amount of food as the portion that was not allowed to be sold for personal gain...

The centralized economy created a place where people lived in third world conditions while the government claimed first world status based on the over expenditure for military power.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Um... No. The USSR collapsed after I got out of the military. And no. Everything else they built was about the same. Their VTOL airplanes fell in the ocean about 15% of the time they did take of landing from their "aircraft carrier" which was a piece of junk...

WRONG!!

Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg" class="image" title="Flag"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg/125px-Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a9/Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg/125px-Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg.png

In the late 1980s the last Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev tried to reform the state with his policies of perestroika and glasnost, but the Soviet Union collapsed and was formally dissolved in December 1991 after the abortive August coup attempt.[8] Since then the Russian Federation has been exercising its rights and fulfilling its obligations.[9]

Everything they did was pretty much full of phail. Their claim to an effective military, including with nukes, was that they had A LOT of it, so though the tanks only worked sporadically they had four times what we had.

Lies. Proof please. If the tanks were so bad, they wouldn't have won the greatest tank battle in history against the Germans. Sure they had numbers, but the tanks were built to last.

Now, their rockets had a bit more power than ours and were somewhat effective (even a broken clock is right twice a day) and there were some inventions that we use, but the West never relied on their manufacture. In order to feed people, at their height of power, they (incredibly) had to purchase food from the US even though they had more arable land than the US by a long shot.

If it wasn't for leaked technology secrets, the Americans would have still been flying kites. The Russians were always one step ahead of the Americans.
The only problem is that a large part of the economy was geared for Military or they would have been a very prosperous country.

If this indeed was the case, it was due to effects of the world wars. They lost the most men in world war one and by far the most men in world war II.
They have vast acres of unused land and farming equipment. What would prevent them from making enough food to not only feed them but the entire eastern Hemisphere? They may have a problem finding buyers but not with supply.

While they had lots of trees they also had a poorly managed centralized economy with little incentive and drive and people had to wait in lines for the simplest of items, even during the best of times. I know you don't like that reality and wish to "pish" it off, but it is reality.

It is you that doesn't like reality. This was after the collapse of the Soviet Union when the centralized government(Oligarchs) Made a run for it and left them in a state of confusion. But you can continue to be in denial.

I will again state: I will take the choice that created a class of "poor" with three televisions, two cars, air conditioning, cable TV, video games, $100 sneakers... (I could go on but it is unnecessary) over the choice that produced "rich" people with 800 SQ Ft Apartments, (unless they purchased in the black market which was capitalist) standing in lines for the simplest of products and who were often turned away if they hadn't gotten there early enough, who if they were incredibly lucky and finally got to the head of the line could purchase an automobile that the poorest of Americans wouldn't buy that had windows that were never designed to roll down and no air conditioning...

All that is still not even payed for!.LOL How much is your deficit? ALL bought and paid for with? Worthless credit. Any idiot can run a successful country on IOU's.LOL

The standing in line was after the collapse. get your facts straight.

Government control of private industry is fascist, not socialist. You again make it clear you have no idea what socialism is.

Now, in the last two years while I was in the military the USSR began to allow a portion of farm land to be used as a personal garden and sold separately. Amazingly this small portion of farmland (maybe 5% of the land) produced the same amount of food as the portion that was not allowed to be sold for personal gain...

The centralized economy created a place where people lived in third world conditions while the government claimed first world status based on the over expenditure for military power.

I noticed you didn't comment on The Oligarchs fleeing to France, Britain and the USA(The so called evil communists were welcomed with open arms by the capitalists). Strange hey?

Not really when you figure it was the capitalists that financed the USSR(Bolsheviks) in the first place. The federal reserves were behind the USSR. Create an enemy and then make trillions of building up arms between the two sides. Brilliant really.

What I meant was in a socialist country. There is no private business, It is all government controlled. All the businesses are controlled by government.

 

[Phantasmal]

was the reasoning behind these quotes? Were these people for or against Capitalism?

This was after he signed the federal reserve act into law.

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” -- Woodrow Wilson

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." — Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States" — Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)


"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". — Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)

"I have never seen more Senators express discontent with their jobs....I think the major cause is that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices in doing something terrible and unforgivable to our wonderful country. Deep down in our heart, we know that we have given our children a legacy of bankruptcy. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected." — John Danforth (R-Mo)

"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen.There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the International bankers — Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)

Americans think, I am still stuck on your title and trying to figure it out...

 

[Phantasmal]

Ok, first off, Germany, Japan and Italy are not socialist counties. They are social democracies with tons of privately owned companies. Second, Italy does NOT make some of the best cars in the world. They are fast, they are pretty, and they keep mechanics employed wherever they are sold. If the British and the Italians made a car together it would never run from the mechanical and electric problems.

So very true, I am laughing just picturing the factory!

 

[Canceled2]

Um... No. The USSR collapsed after I got out of the military. And no. Everything else they built was about the same. Their VTOL airplanes fell in the ocean about 15% of the time they did take of landing from their "aircraft carrier" which was a piece of junk...

Everything they did was pretty much full of phail. Their claim to an effective military, including with nukes, was that they had A LOT of it, so though the tanks only worked sporadically they had four times what we had.

Now, their rockets had a bit more power than ours and were somewhat effective (even a broken clock is right twice a day) and there were some inventions that we use, but the West never relied on their manufacture. In order to feed people, at their height of power, they (incredibly) had to purchase food from the US even though they had more arable land than the US by a long shot.

While they had lots of trees they also had a poorly managed centralized economy with little incentive and drive and people had to wait in lines for the simplest of items, even during the best of times. I know you don't like that reality and wish to "pish" it off, but it is reality.

I will again state: I will take the choice that created a class of "poor" with three televisions, two cars, air conditioning, cable TV, video games, $100 sneakers... (I could go on but it is unnecessary) over the choice that produced "rich" people with 800 SQ Ft Apartments, (unless they purchased in the black market which was capitalist) standing in lines for the simplest of products and who were often turned away if they hadn't gotten there early enough, who if they were incredibly lucky and finally got to the head of the line could purchase an automobile that the poorest of Americans wouldn't buy that had windows that were never designed to roll down and no air conditioning...
Government control of private industry is fascist, not socialist. You again make it clear you have no idea what socialism is.

Now, in the last two years while I was in the military the USSR began to allow a portion of farm land to be used as a personal garden and sold separately. Amazingly this small portion of farmland (maybe 5% of the land) produced the same amount of food as the portion that was not allowed to be sold for personal gain...

The centralized economy created a place where people lived in third world conditions while the government claimed first world status based on the over expenditure for military power.

Well said!

 

[wiseones2cents]

Americans think, I am still stuck on your title and trying to figure it out...

WHats there to figure out? I said What do Americans think was the reasoning behind the quotes I provided?

 

[wiseones2cents]

Well said!

Another American in denial.LOL I debate on a religious site and they were talking about the amount of poor that show up at their shelters.

How many unemployed people are in America, with no Cars, TV's or anything.

I also remember seeing a program where New Yorkers were looking in trash cans for food.

Nope! No poor people in America(note sarcasm). LOL

 

[DamnYankee]

Were these people for or against Capitalism?

They were for it, and against the international monetary system, which can never be anything other than pure corruption.

 

[wiseones2cents]

OOPS!

 

[wiseones2cents]

They were for it, and against the international monetary system, which can never be anything other than pure corruption.

Finally signs of intelligence on this board.

So how do you stop the international monetary system that has enslaved the world?

In your case, the Federal Reserve that is a private institution, owned by investors outside the USA, has a credit monopoly for the most part.

And a monetary system not backed by GOLD. Which is unconstitutional.

The question is...How do you get the devil out of your home, once he was let in and has taken control?

Rand Paul was leading a grass movement to take down the Federal Reserve(or at least have it audited) but it was all talk and it fizzled(by design). Plus after Obama passed those Economic over hauls? The federal reserve has come out even stronger....