Were fucking owned

:good4u:

__________________
"Back in 2008, the smart liberal spin on "post-partisanship" -- one which I frankly bought into -- is that it was in part an effort to put a popular, centrist sheen on a relatively liberal agenda. Instead, as Leonhardt points out, what Obama has wound up with is an unpopular, liberal sheen on a relatively centrist agenda."

-Nate Silver
 
USSC: Money doesn't corrupt?!

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/01/21/us/AP-US-Supreme-Court-Campaign-Finance.html?_r=1&hp


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that corporations may spend as freely as they like to support or oppose candidates for president and Congress, easing decades-old limits on business efforts to influence federal campaigns.

By a 5-4 vote, the court overturned a 20-year-old ruling that said companies can be prohibited from using money from their general treasuries to produce and run their own campaign ads. The decision, which almost certainly will also allow labor unions to participate more freely in campaigns, threatens similar limits imposed by 24 states.

sc-money-talks.jpg


scalia-clown.jpg


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/01/21/us/AP-US-Supreme-Court-Campaign-Finance.html?_r=2
 
Why would anyone think a corporation should be intitled to free speech within our government.

The people who run the copr already have rights, they dont deserve extra ones because they control a shit load of money do they?

Hmm, the ACLU saw reasons:

http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/scotus/citizensunited_v_fec_acluamicus.pdf

...AMICUS CURIAEBRIEF OF THE AMERICAN CIVIL
LIBERTIES UNION IN SUPPORT OF APPELLANT
ON SUPPLEMENTAL QUESTION
...

2

SUMMARY OF ARGUMENT
The broad prohibition on “electioneering com-
munications” set forth in § 203 of the Bipartisan
Campaign Reform Act of 2002 (BCRA), 2 U.S.C. §
441b(b)(2), violates the First Amendment, and the
limiting construction adopted by this Court in WRTL
is insufficient to save it.

Accordingly, the Court
should strike down § 203 as facially unconstitutional
and overrule that portion of McConnell that holds
otherwise.

This brief addresses only that question. It does
not address the additional question raised by this
Court’s reargument order: namely, whether Austin v.
Michigan Chamber of Commerce, 494 U.S. 652
(1990), should be overruled. However, if Austin is
overruled and the ban on express advocacy by
corporations and unions is struck down, then the ban
on “electioneering communications” in § 203 would
necessarily fall as a consequence.

Even if Austin is not overruled, § 203 is unconsti-
tutional precisely because it extends beyond the
express advocacy at issue in Austin. The history of
the McConnell litigation, as well as campaign finance
litigation before and after McConnell, demonstrates
that there is no precise or predictable way to
determine whether or not political speech is the
“functional equivalent” of express advocacy.

The decision in WRTL correctly recognized that
the BCRA’s prophylactic ban on “electioneering
communications” threatened speech that lies at the
heart of the First Amendment, including genuine
issue ads by nonpartisan organizations like the
ACLU. But the reformulated ban crafted by this
Court in WRTL continues to threaten core First
Amendment speech. Its reliance on the hypothetical
response of a reasonable listener still leaves speakers
guessing about what speech is lawful and what
speech is not. That uncertainty invites arbitrary and
discriminatory enforcement. It will also lead many
speakers to self-censor rather than risk sanctions or
undertake the expense of suing the FEC prior to
speaking, especially since most suits will not be
resolved until long after the speech is timely and
relevant.

In short, § 203 was a poorly conceived effort to
restrict political speech and should be struck down.
 
From now on if a politician is backed by corporate money under the new Supreme Court ruling, I think that politician should wear a logo patch on his clothes to identify who he represents. Like Nascar.
 
From now on if a politician is backed by corporate money under the new Supreme Court ruling, I think that politician should wear a logo patch on his clothes to identify who he represents. Like Nascar.

Everyone in office is already backed by corporate money.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
What I find fascinating is the immediate neocon kneejerk that Unions have been solely doing what the SCOTUS just granted them and corporations. Fascinating, because it was the neocons who smugly pointed out the large corporate finance contributions to the Obama 2008 campaign. The same claims of "liberal double standards" went to Clinton as well. So the claim that Unions were the sole corrupting force is kind of hypocritical.

The truly SCARY thing here is that the SCOTUS used a case about whether it was legal for ONE individual group (non-corporate) had to divulge funding when they put a out slam tape against Hillary during 2008 campaign...to leapfrog into cementing corporations as individual entities on par with individual human beings.

So now, the company that you work for or are a shareholder in can take your money and bankroll any politician it wants whether you like it or not. The Board of Trustees and the management come together and become a person on paper....a person who has the vast resources of ALL the workers, union and non-union. Man, that's FUBB (f***ed up beyond belief). And you can't complain, because THEY are a person, with rights just like you.

Yeah, with one fail swoop the Reagan/Bush boys in the SCOTUS have eliminated a century of combined legal rules to try and limit corporate/union influence on our political system. Man, the proverbial excrement is REALLY tilting towards that fan.

Actually that is what I basically said earlier. Corporations are not people, neither are unions. They are both simply gatherings of people. Union members have rights, unions do not, shareholders and employees (even CEOs) have rights, Corporations do not IMO.

Neither should be able to wield "rights" as an individual can.

Basically, what is good for the goose is good for the gander...

However, in order to have "freedom of the press" and to make sure "that congress shall pass no law restricting the right to free speech" could have this effect. "The Press" is, in fact, made up of corporations that exercise a right directly written into the constitution.


Ahhh, but remember, the base case was to whether or not a company that with a strong political bent was behind a slam commercial and could they run such within a certain time frame of a campaign and NOT I.D. themselves and their agenda.

Now the SCOTUS says it doesn't matter....so the boys with the bucks now throws any semblence of objective reporting out the window. The Press being a corporation can and has been attacked for years...check out "manufacturing consent" by Noam Chomsky. Thing is now, no one can complain anymore.
 
I see you intend to ignore the donor list I posted to this thread.....corporate donations tend to be split between Dems and Reps......union donations tend to be divided 9:1.......and union donors rank as high as corp donors......

Do a sum up of union donations compared to corporate donations....mind you, you have to include all the SUB-owned companies that parent corporations funnel cash through, but falsely try to treat as separate entities. When you do that, you'll see my point.
 
what about the law that bans foreigners from donating or spending money on electioneering? if a corp is federal owned, in part or in whole....seems to me we have a problem.

(e) Disbursements by foreign nationals for electioneering
communications. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly,
make any disbursement for an electioneering communication as defined in
11 CFR 100.29.
 
Do a sum up of union donations compared to corporate donations....mind you, you have to include all the SUB-owned companies that parent corporations funnel cash through, but falsely try to treat as separate entities. When you do that, you'll see my point.

uh, what I see is that unions contribute more and almost exclusively to Dumbocrats.....your point is on top of your head....
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Do a sum up of union donations compared to corporate donations....mind you, you have to include all the SUB-owned companies that parent corporations funnel cash through, but falsely try to treat as separate entities. When you do that, you'll see my point.

uh, what I see is that unions contribute more and almost exclusively to Dumbocrats.....your point is on top of your head....

See, you got nasty when I was being civil. Just because someone tells you that you're wrong is no need to get nasty. But since you're unwilling to be civil, then I will act accordingly in the near future.

First off, the point of the SCOTUS ruling wasn't about who contributes more to what party, but who gives the most amount and to whom. I'm not contesting union donation to the Dems. Clearly, a higher contribution to one party from one corporation outweighs much smaller donations from 2 unions.

Go back to your list, make two columns...corporate and union. Now tell me, what do you consider a union and a corporation? Straight up, the list shows about 50 corporations and about 35 unions....associations are a toss up, and some listings are neither.

Given this wide margin of error, you could say that either the unions come out on top or both unions & corps come out even in donation amounts....but to say unions are a slam dunk bigger political contributor is dubious at best. So once again, you knee jerk bias shows itself.

Let me break it down further for you. The recent self created fuck-ups by the financial industry have put a crimp on some of the major financial donors on your list, and given the various rulings that somewhat stemmed campaign donations, the best bang for the buck was actually being rivaled by the unions (although I do recall neocons squawking with cynical glee at Obama's corporate donations to his campaign).

But now, all bets are off...and I guarantee you that the corps are going to dig into their pockets BIG TIME...on a level unions will not be able to match across the board (but not without trying!).

This is NOT good for either party, or for you and I the voters.
 
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See, you got nasty when I was being civil. Just because someone tells you that you're wrong is no need to get nasty. But since you're unwilling to be civil, then I will act accordingly in the near future.

First off, the point of the SCOTUS ruling wasn't about who contributes more to what party, but who gives the most amount and to whom. .

you are an idiot

read the case again
 
See, you got nasty when I was being civil. Just because someone tells you that you're wrong is no need to get nasty. But since you're unwilling to be civil, then I will act accordingly in the near future.

good lord, Touchie....why on earth would I assume you were being civil....you're the least civil person on the board

First off, the point of the SCOTUS ruling wasn't about who contributes more to what party, but who gives the most amount and to whom. I'm not contesting union donation to the Dems. Clearly, a higher contribution to one party from one corporation outweighs much smaller donations from 2 unions.
except they aren't "much smaller" donations...right out of the gate, #1 and #2 are a corporation and an union, the first evenly split and the second almost exclusively Dem......that extra $20mill alone offsets half the bottom tier of corps.....

Let me break it down further for you. The recent self created fuck-ups by the financial industry have put a crimp on some of the major financial donors on your list, and given the various rulings that somewhat stemmed campaign donations, the best bang for the buck was actually being rivaled by the unions (although I do recall neocons squawking with cynical glee at Obama's corporate donations to his campaign).
that chart covers two decades of giving

But now, all bets are off...and I guarantee you that the corps are going to dig into their pockets BIG TIME...on a level unions will not be able to match across the board (but not without trying!).

This is NOT good for either party, or for you and I the voters.

one, I'm not in favor of huge corporate donations (which problem would be solved if political contributions were not tax deductible, by the way) but it's tiresome watching librulls like you pretend the unions aren't a problem.....if you added in the donated services like phone banks and driving people to (or away from) polling stations it wouldn't even be a contest.....
 
good lord, Touchie....why on earth would I assume you were being civil....you're the least civil person on the board


except they aren't "much smaller" donations...right out of the gate, #1 and #2 are a corporation and an union, the first evenly split and the second almost exclusively Dem......that extra $20mill alone offsets half the bottom tier of corps.....


that chart covers two decades of giving



one, I'm not in favor of huge corporate donations (which problem would be solved if political contributions were not tax deductible, by the way) but it's tiresome watching librulls like you pretend the unions aren't a problem.....if you added in the donated services like phone banks and driving people to (or away from) polling stations it wouldn't even be a contest.....

are political donations tax deductible? not trying to say you're wrong i guess i wasn't aware of that.
 
are political donations tax deductible? not trying to say you're wrong i guess i wasn't aware of that.

not those paid directly to a politician or a lobbiest....but you can deduct contributions to non profit organizations that are politically active......and union dues.....
 
From now on if a politician is backed by corporate money under the new Supreme Court ruling, I think that politician should wear a logo patch on his clothes to identify who he represents. Like Nascar.

I think we would be better off if we were able to make donors unknown to the politicians.
 
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