We can't afford NOT TO do single payer health care

[T. A. Gardner]

We can't afford NOT TO do single payer health care

Is doing the same thing and failing really what we should want to do moving forward? It's quite clear that the whole use of insurance to pay for routine healthcare is a massive, and expensive, fail. Going forward, we would see the same thing that has happened to flood insurance. That's single payer now, and it's a bottomless pit of stupidity run by FEMA.

 

[cawacko]

I don't even know what he think he meant. "As California goes so goes the country." "Uh, sure, cawacko, what then?" "Governor Newsom and the Democratic Assembly won't even vote on single payer health insurance." "Oh. Why not?" ". . ."

A worthless drive by shot from a shallow poster without a point.

You have never heard the phrase as California goes so goes the nation? Usually it's people on the right who rip on California. Surprised to hear it coming from someone on the left. It's a famous phrase because California is a leader in so many areas. Many things that start at the state level here ultimately get implement both in other states and nationally later on.

If M4A is going to pass on a state level it's likely to be in California. Yet we couldn't even get it to a vote. That's not a worthless drive by shot nor is there nothing shallow about it. It's a fact. Maybe you think somewhere like Nebraska will implement it first? Possible of course, can't rule it out, but not real likely.

It's not a difficult concept to understand. California is a leader, often in progressive ideas, and if we can't get M4A further than this then it's not a great sign for national legislation. (though maybe I'll be proven wrong, wouldn't be the first time)

Edit: FWIW, if you have a question about what I wrote - just ask. Novel concept that people can have actual discussions and exchange of ideas and not have it be a fight. To each his own of course if the goal is just to troll but just throwing it out there.

 

[Diesel]

If the discussion is simply an academic, or intellectual, one on support for M4A then I agree it doesn’t add much.

But if it’s about implementing M4A in America then it seems very relevant to me. Newsom backed off because of the costs (he of course knew what the costs would be when he initially stated he supported it but politics are always involved).

Maybe one will argue M4A can’t work on a state level and must only be implemented nationally because of costs.

Edit: To be clear, the bill never even got a vote in the assembly so Newsom is not the reason it didn’t pass. He did run on supporting it however and then used zero political capital, or his bully pulpit, to garner support for it. So that to me is very relevant if M4A supporters can’t even bring it up for a vote.

I can't find any supporting reporting that Newsom retreated because of costs.

 

[Diesel]

You have never heard the phrase as California goes so goes the nation? Usually it's people on the right who rip on California. Surprised to hear it coming from someone on the left. It's a famous phrase because California is a leader in so many areas. Many things that start at the state level here ultimately get implement both in other states and nationally later on.

If M4A is going to pass on a state level it's likely to be in California. Yet we couldn't even get it to a vote. That's not a worthless drive by shot nor is there nothing shallow about it. It's a fact. Maybe you think somewhere like Nebraska will implement it first? Possible of course, can't rule it out, but not real likely.

It's not a difficult concept to understand. California is a leader, often in progressive ideas, and if we can't get M4A further than this then it's not a great sign for national legislation. (though maybe I'll be proven wrong, wouldn't be the first time)

Edit: FWIW, if you have a question about what I wrote - just ask. Novel concept that people can have actual discussions and exchange of ideas and not have it be a fight. To each his own of course if the goal is just to troll but just throwing it out there.

I agree with a lot that CA does (and love most of that state by the way), but I've been trying to figure out why CA couldn't get M4A passed. Wouldn't even vote on it. Nothing I've read online suggests that the reason was cost.

 

[cawacko]

I agree with a lot that CA does (and love most of that state by the way), but I've been trying to figure out why CA couldn't get M4A passed. Wouldn't even vote on it. Nothing I've read online suggests that the reason was cost.

If you ideologically support something it’s not easy to come out and say it’s not financially feasible (especially in this case politically because it would back up what those on the right have been saying). So that’s why you don’t read about people saying it.

The federal government can print money, states can’t. California is heavily dependent on a strong stock market and the wealthy doing well. When that’s the case we have big surpluses but when it’s not we have massive deficits. You basically can’t fund M4A in such an environment.

Edit: the last statement is my opinion but I think it’s backed up by fact considering we can’t advance M4A to even a vote, but I suppose one could argue otherwise

 

[Diesel]

If you ideologically support something it’s not easy to come out and say it’s not financially feasible (especially in this case politically because it would back up what those on the right have been saying). So that’s why you don’t read about people saying it.

The federal government can print money, states can’t. California is heavily dependent on a strong stock market and the wealthy doing well. When that’s the case we have big surpluses but when it’s not we have massive deficits. You basically can’t fund M4A in such an environment.

Edit: the last statement is my opinion but I think it’s backed up by fact considering we can’t advance M4A to even a vote, but I suppose one could argue otherwise

Yet you have no evidence whatsoever that Newsom bailed because of cost because it's uncomfortable for the left to discuss and the right never picked up on it. Pardon for me not taking anything you've said seriously.

 

[volsrock]

Life expectancy has declined for Americans. That's a direct result of our for-profit system.

The result of fat lazy slobs high carbs and sugar etc

 

[volsrock]

How much do you pay in premiums for your health insurance per month right now?

380.00 for two


If people cant afford that,,,they can drop their maxed on cell and cable TV service

 

[Ross Dolan]

Show me where then.

Bend down...put your head between your legs...and look up your asshole. You will find all you need to find on that issue there.

 

[Ross Dolan]

How long have you had dementia Frank? Longer than you have been on welfare? STFU you welfare collecting, white, woke cocksucking democrat.

Brilliant.

For a MAGA MORON, that is.

 

[Ross Dolan]

amazingly you have shown just how ignorant of government corruption you are, especially comparing it to capitalism. there are other countries out there for you, leave this one.

You are an idiot.

But I pity you, because you are an idiot.

 

[LV426]

did you already forget that I said in 2 years??????

I find that very hard to believe and this sounds a lot like what that fat bitch Julie Boonstra tried to pull off.

Like you, she too was vague and uninformed.

Turns out she either lied or didn't understand her insurance plan.

Obamacare saved her $2,500 after falsely claiming that's what her health care costs rose to:

Maybe there are no genuine Obamacare horror stories
https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-obamacare-horror-stories-20140220-story.html

Also, you don't get insurance through your employer, correct? You buy it yourself? Why didn't you look for a cheaper plan on the exchanges? Are you that helpless? You could have always just called healthcare.gov and they could have helped you find a cheaper plan, if what you're saying is true. Why don't you help yourself? Is it because you think you're entitled to other people helping you without doing anything in return? Cuz that's what it sounds like.

Also, it doubled and then didn't rise again? So it doubled in two years, but then didn't increase at all over the next 10? You should be thanking Obamacare for that since the goal was to cut back on increasing costs.

 

[LV426]

empirical removes the humanity out of it.

No. It removes the lies, exaggerations, embellishments, and bullshit.

I'm not taking your word for anything, so you're gonna have to either back this shit up with proof, or not utter it at all.

I prefer to deal with humanity, not government promoted statistics

Bullshit, you are one of the most anti-social people on JPP.

You don't give a shit about humanity. If you did, you wouldn't feel the need to embellish personal details about yourself because you lack any empirical evidence to support your points.

You and your Nazi pals all do the same thing, every time.

You can't win a debate along empirical lines so you just make shit up that confirms your inherent biases because deep down, you're a fucking coward.

 

[LV426]

how does a doctor pay themselves if they are not charging their patients for care??

Because they get reimbursed from the insurance pool, dipshit. That's the entire purpose of health insurance. Think of reimbursements like revenue...the provider gets revenue from the claims it submits to the insurance pool. The insurer then sends the reimbursement to the provider who applies it to the P&L, just like any other business.

Le sigh.

This is what I mean when I say you don't know how our health care system works.

 

[LV426]

The stupidity of the fascist left is a wonder to behold.

For the first time, you actually wrote a complete sentence that didn't have any misspellings or grammatical errors...so good for you!

SPENDING capitol creates nothing.

LMAO! Oh geez. It only took you one sentence to put your foot in your mouth.

It's "capital", not "capitol".

And yes, spending CAPITAL creates wealth. This is the very essence of capitalism. It was also the justification for the dumb Russia Tax Cut that you supported that was promised to increase business investment.

Guess what? It didn't.

 

[LV426]

Government PRODUCES nothing. They don't grow food, they don't make homes, the don't mine resources. They tax the productive, nothing else.

Government produces quite a bit, like infrastructure so you can sit on your computer from your hovel and talk shit without ever having to back it up.

 

[LV426]

Non-sequitur.

I love how whenever your argument is completely upended, you just say it's a non-sequitur.

How is it a non-sequitur to say that the cashier at the store doesn't give a shit from where you got your money? All they care about is whether you have enough.

So again, we have an example of you using a phrase you don't completely understand.

Every attempt you make to sound smart, you end up sounding like an incredible fucking idiot.

 

[LV426]

"Supply creates it's own demand"

Nope.

It sure doesn't.

The last 40 years is proof.

Supply chases demand, not the other way around.

This is why the economy always tanks when Conservatives are in charge.

When the joint venture of Microsoft and Compaq (Later Hewlett-Packard) created the IPhone, there was ZERO demand, in fact demand was so low that that HP couldn't make a profit off of them (IPaq). It took the marketing genius of Apple to entice consumers to buy something there was zero demand for, a PDA and phone in a single device.

Actually, there was demand...from the government.

That's where all this computer tech derives from.

The government had the demand, domestically and militarily, for this tech to develop; and government spent the money to develop that tech in concert with companies like IBM waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy before MS and Compaq got together.

Millions of jobs were CREATED by Microsoft, HP, and Apple - though Apple (EvilCorp) sent most of those jobs to China. That is the creation of jobs. The rulers of the state create nothing. All they can do is transfer wealth from those who produce, to those who do not - usually themselves.

On the back of 50+ years of government-subsidized research and development into computers and the internet.

 

[LV426]

You Communists are such morons. YOU were bitching that providing healthcare made US companies uncompetitive.

Check the thread, moron, I never said that.

That was guno, I believe.

So once again, we have another example of you putting your fucking tiny foot into that big, fat fucking mouth because you think you're a lot fucking smarter than you really are.

 

[LV426]

I didn't start this threat, idiot - you did

Thread

Jesus fucking Christ...how is it possible that someone can't even manage to use the correct words when declaring how fucking smart they are or how dumb someone else is?

This is evidence that you don't put any thought into your posts...you just react because that's all you can do since you don't really believe in anything yourself.

Obama care is a fucking disaster. So much a disaster that the Hivemind has programmed mindless drones like you to eliminate it.

How is Obamacare a disaster? You haven't been able to explain. You just scream about it because you don't understand it.

Like I said earlier, you only really understand about 33-50% of what you post here.

The Hivemind wouldn't be calling for fully socialized medicine if Fascist care was effective.

You're the one who wants to keep private insurance companies around.