We Are Not Collecting Enough Taxes. And Still The Debt Rises; Despite Strong Economy.

PoliTalker said:
Hello Flash,

The only reason the surplus did not result in a year-to-year debt decrease is because the surplus did not exist long enough. W took over and wiped it out.

If we maintain a surplus, the debt will fall.
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Not as long as government simply rolls over current debt by borrowing to pay the outstanding treasuries when they come due. Even under Clinton's first balanced budget it was only balanced by including the Social Security trust fund surplus.

Both parties are irresponsible. Like the old saying "Democrats tax and spend" and "Republicans borrow and spend."
 
The tax cut for the rich had a minority of public support. The 'most of us' comment? You wish. If wishes were horses you'd have a stable full.
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Sez you. I ain't rich and I got a tax cut and I'm thankful for it. As far as the rich are concerned, I have never cared about their financial situations. I've worked my ass off for what I have and I'm grateful for that too. I think the major problem for you and your ilk is the green eyed monster. Mind your own business, take care of yourself and your family to the best of your ability(if you can't, don't start a family, please)

Just make big corporations pay for the social safety net that supports all their part time workers.
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Employers already pay 6.2 percent of their employees earnings in social security taxes(matches the employee contribution). Why should they be responsible for the whole thing? Let's start weaning people off the "social safety net" and start teaching them how to plan for their financial futures in high school, like they used to?

Make the super-rich pay for the higher education of the workers whose work fills the pockets of the super-rich.
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Why would ANYONE do that! Why would you pay for the college education of a retail clerk or a burger flipper just to have them graduate and go on to another company, or stay and flip burgers with a liberal arts degree? I have a classroom full of welding students right now, some still carrying shrapnel in their bodies, that will just manage to complete their educations through the VA, and if they don't complete their programs, they get to pay that money back! I see companies that do things along those lines, and that's their prerogative, but it makes me angry when you start talking about "making" someone do something. That ain't freedom anymore

And get the greedy health care insurance racket middle man OUT of health care! Single Payer Now!
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Medical insurance can be expensive, so here are some tips: If you can't afford insurance, do not start a family, don't smoke, over eat, do drugs, bungee jump, skydive or participate in any "extreme" sport until age 65, when medicare kicks in. Because that single payer shit is gonna cost 36 TRILLION bucks in the first decade alone
 
Kacper said:
And paying off the national debt would completely tank the economy. Democrats, however, don't want to pay off the debt. They just want more available credit when they belly up to the trough.
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I thought you teabaggers hated deficits/high national debt?

what happened shitbird?
 
callinectes said:
Sez you. I ain't rich and I got a tax cut and I'm thankful for it. As far as the rich are concerned, I have never cared about their financial situations. I've worked my ass off for what I have and I'm grateful for that too. I think the major problem for you and your ilk is the green eyed monster. Mind your own business, take care of yourself and your family to the best of your ability(if you can't, don't start a family, please)


Employers already pay 6.2 percent of their employees earnings in social security taxes(matches the employee contribution). Why should they be responsible for the whole thing? Let's start weaning people off the "social safety net" and start teaching them how to plan for their financial futures in high school, like they used to?


Why would ANYONE do that! Why would you pay for the college education of a retail clerk or a burger flipper just to have them graduate and go on to another company, or stay and flip burgers with a liberal arts degree? I have a classroom full of welding students right now, some still carrying shrapnel in their bodies, that will just manage to complete their educations through the VA, and if they don't complete their programs, they get to pay that money back! I see companies that do things along those lines, and that's their prerogative, but it makes me angry when you start talking about "making" someone do something. That ain't freedom anymore


Medical insurance can be expensive, so here are some tips: If you can't afford insurance, do not start a family, don't smoke, over eat, do drugs, bungee jump, skydive or participate in any "extreme" sport until age 65, when medicare kicks in. Because that single payer shit is gonna cost 36 TRILLION bucks in the first decade alone
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Polls show most Americans are against tax cuts for the wealthy

wake the fuck up stupid
 
reagansghost said:
Polls show most Americans are against tax cuts for the wealthy

wake the fuck up stupid
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And if you keep on asking your pajama boy, bernie-voting, demorat, man-bun wearing twinkle puff socialist comrades that poll question, you're gonna keep on getting that same answer. Does it sound logical for anyone who voted GOP in 2016 to say "well, I thought the dems were making a mess of things, so I voted GOP. But I really wanted single payer health care and I darn sure didn't want a tax cut, for heavens sake!" So take your polls and shove them up your ass, because they all said hillary was gonna win by a landslide too. Sometimes they're wrong, dumbass
 
PoliTalker said:
Here is a good website for keeping track of the debt and the deficit:

US Debt Clock

The debt is now nearly $21.5 Trillion. It was about $20 Trillion when Trump took over.

Notice the box with the deficit. It continues to rise.

That means the economy is not (as Republicans promised,) generating enough taxes to pay down the debt.

Democrats pointed this out when Republicans wanted to raid the piggy bank with the recent tax cut for the rich, but Republicans would not listen. Republicans said the expanding economy would make up for the shortfall. It hasn't. Republicans were wrong. The deficit continues to rise.

That's bad. It fell under Obama and Clinton.

Not only are we not paying down the debt, we continue to borrow more and more, just to run the government. We cannot live on borrowed tax cuts.

The situation cannot continue. We can not ignore this like the Republicans want to do. The Republican approach is irresponsible. We have to support Democrats who promise fiscal responsibility.

We have to raise taxes on the rich. They are the only ones with enough spare income to reverse this.
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We choose to spend our money on empire and blowing up the rest of the world.
 
Hello Flash,

Flash said:
Not as long as government simply rolls over current debt by borrowing to pay the outstanding treasuries when they come due. Even under Clinton's first balanced budget it was only balanced by including the Social Security trust fund surplus.

Both parties are irresponsible. Like the old saying "Democrats tax and spend" and "Republicans borrow and spend."
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So true.

But Democrats have a better record of fiscal responsibility, especially considering that Dems often inherit serious economic problems from Reps, which they then have to deal with just to get back to a functional economy.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Flash,



So true.

But Democrats have a better record of fiscal responsibility, especially considering that Dems often inherit serious economic problems from Reps, which they then have to deal with just to get back to a functional economy.
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I'm familiar with those studies and agree but also know they attribute little of the differences to the fiscal or monetary policies of the parties. Studies also show the economy does best under divided government. I find these studies creditable but know if the methods are changed the results differ. For example, should a policy change be measured one year or two years after it is implemented (how long does it take before the effects occur)?

https://www.aeaweb.org/research/why-does-the-economy-do-better-democrats-white-house

https://www.ajc.com/news/opinion/will-divided-government-good-for-the-economy/8WPiFPMjHyIRSIX8rjwLqK
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,

Says the selfish rich who only think of themselves and could not care less if the government debt breaks the government.

how do you know how the rich think? The fact that you THINK you DO know just highlights your bias against them. You have to make up these myths that all rich people are evil because it justifies your disdain for them.

Every large organization, whether it is government or private sector, which is attempting to meet a lofty goal involving many unknowns, and requiring many many people coordinated together to accomplish, is going to have significant waste.

The difference is if those large organizations don't do their job and make a profit for their shareholders, they go out of business. Not true for the federal government. They just keep on taxing and spending and running up the debt.($21 trillion).


The government bureaucracy is a great machine which accomplishes many things which are good for the USA. While doing all this good, another giant factor here is that all of those government workers and contractors are earning paychecks out of all that government spending, and they are using their money to contribute to the economy. Tax money paid to the government is not lost out of the economy. There is no dark hole of no return. There is a great return. Tax money is spent by the government, and generates more economic activity, thus raising the GDP.

I couldn't help but laugh at your first statement. You've obviously never worked for the federal government. Paying government workers to do nothing doesn't help the economy. It wastes our tax dollars. Waste!


Taxes are not meant as punishment. You should be proud to pay your taxes. This makes you a contributing part of America. You are contributing to our nation, doing your part to make America great. Paying your taxes makes America great. You are getting your money's worth by being an American. Somalians pay no taxes and have a very limited government, but I would not recommend moving there. It is far better to be an American. And yes, have to pay taxes. You should be proud of being a tax-paying American.

I am proud of being a tax paying American. I am not proud of my government wasting my tax dollars. Once again, you have never worked for the government so you have no idea. I can't believe that you're so naive about the government. Politicians must love voters like you that don't hold them accountable ($21 trillion).


Perhaps you would be happy to vote for a candidate who pledges to bankrupt the nation. If taxes should always be reduced, why not simply go all the way and make them zero? You can also eat cake and lose weight while you are at it.

you make zero sense. Arguing in extremes is a pretty childish strategy. And don't attempt to tell me what I'd be happy doing. Again, childish.

No, it is not like that at all. It is far more complex. If there was so much frivolous spending which could easily be cut, why have Republicans been unable to reduce spending? They have the votes. Actually, it's worse than that. They have increased spending. A college kid can make a few rice and bean meals in the dorm, not go out for so many beers. That's easy. Government spending can not be cut without removing a flow of money into the economy. Despite all the promises, Republicans have the votes and can't cut the spending. Because they don't want to crash the economy.

Again, I couldn't help but laugh at your last sentence. Do you have a degree in Economics? Have you ever taken a college course in Economics?

Raising taxes on the rich may slow things down a bit but it won't crash the economy or put as many people out of work.

Raise taxes on the rich. Raise the minimum wage. Hold the line on defense spending.
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Lower taxes for ALL AMERICANS. Keep the government out of private industry wages. Cut defense spending by 20%.
 
Last edited:
" Cut defense spending by 20%. " DT #132
"... today there are over 320,000 [U.S.] Army troops alone, deployed in 120 countries overseas. That's more than 60% of the entire [U.S.] Army." NBC-TV Nightly News March 9, '04
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Which deployments,
which procurements
which missions would you "cut" to achieve this "20%"?
 
Hello Flash,

Flash said:
I'm familiar with those studies and agree but also know they attribute little of the differences to the fiscal or monetary policies of the parties. Studies also show the economy does best under divided government. I find these studies creditable but know if the methods are changed the results differ. For example, should a policy change be measured one year or two years after it is implemented (how long does it take before the effects occur)?

https://www.aeaweb.org/research/why-does-the-economy-do-better-democrats-white-house

https://www.ajc.com/news/opinion/will-divided-government-good-for-the-economy/8WPiFPMjHyIRSIX8rjwLqK
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Thanks for the excellent links. VERY interesting. Makes sense.
 
sear said:
" Cut defense spending by 20%. " DT #132

Which deployments,
which procurements
which missions would you "cut" to achieve this "20%"?
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Oh please. Give me a freaking break. You let the generals figure that out. I worked in the Pentagon for five years and I saw the waste, fraud and abuse first-hand. Everybody thinks so highly of our military and think it can do no wrong. But the Pentagon and private defense contractors are taking American taxpayers to the cleaners. To think otherwise is just plain naive.

Take a look at this link:

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_wires/2009Mar02/0,4675,GovernmentFraud,00.html

Contractor gets 6+ years in Pentagon fraud case

Monday, March 02, 2009

By MEG KINNARD, Associated Press Writer

COLUMBIA, S.C. —

The owner of a defunct South Carolina company was sentenced Monday to 6 1/2 years in prison for bilking the Pentagon out of $21 million she obtained by inflating military equipment shipping costs.
"Your Honor, I messed up. I messed up really bad," Charlene Corley told U.S. District Judge Margaret Seymour before she was sentenced. "I want to apologize and say I'm really sorry."

Seymour also ordered Corley, who pleaded guilty in 2007 to conspiracy to commit wire fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering, to pay $15.5 million in restitution to the Defense Department.

"The money was taken at a time when our country was at war," Seymour said, in handing down Corley's sentence.

From 1997 to 2006, prosecutors say Corley and her twin sister Darlene Wooten used their plumbing and hardware equipment supply company to exploit an automated payment system designed to speed shipments bound for U.S. forces overseas, submitting huge bills to ship inexpensive items.

Prosecutors said fraudulent charges made through their West Columbia-based company, C&D Distributors, included ones for nearly $1 million to ship two 19-cent lock washers and almost $500,000 to ship an $11 threaded plug.

"This was all because they wanted to live large at the government's expense," Assistant U.S. Attorney Debbie Barbier told the judge. "Every U.S. taxpayer is going to pay for their fraud."

Among the sisters' extravagant purchases were matching $96,000 Mercedes-Benz luxury cars, a $250,000 box at Clemson University's football stadium, four beach houses and hundreds of thousands of dollars in jewelry, prosecutors said.

"Mrs. Corley put her obscene, personal pleasure well ahead of her responsibility to act professionally and honestly in contracting with the government," Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin McDonald said.
 
We should all do our part to help address the debt. I am agreeable to a 100% tax on all netflix memberships. That will add like $1.5 billion to the kitty. Now, someone else's turn.....
 
Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,

DonaldvoTrumpovich said:
Oh please. Give me a freaking break. You let the generals figure that out. I worked in the Pentagon for five years and I saw the waste, fraud and abuse first-hand. Everybody thinks so highly of our military and think it can do no wrong. But the Pentagon and private defense contractors are taking American taxpayers to the cleaners. To think otherwise is just plain naive.

Take a look at this link:

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_wires/2009Mar02/0,4675,GovernmentFraud,00.html

Contractor gets 6+ years in Pentagon fraud case

Monday, March 02, 2009

By MEG KINNARD, Associated Press Writer

COLUMBIA, S.C. —

The owner of a defunct South Carolina company was sentenced Monday to 6 1/2 years in prison for bilking the Pentagon out of $21 million she obtained by inflating military equipment shipping costs.
"Your Honor, I messed up. I messed up really bad," Charlene Corley told U.S. District Judge Margaret Seymour before she was sentenced. "I want to apologize and say I'm really sorry."

Seymour also ordered Corley, who pleaded guilty in 2007 to conspiracy to commit wire fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering, to pay $15.5 million in restitution to the Defense Department.

"The money was taken at a time when our country was at war," Seymour said, in handing down Corley's sentence.

From 1997 to 2006, prosecutors say Corley and her twin sister Darlene Wooten used their plumbing and hardware equipment supply company to exploit an automated payment system designed to speed shipments bound for U.S. forces overseas, submitting huge bills to ship inexpensive items.

Prosecutors said fraudulent charges made through their West Columbia-based company, C&D Distributors, included ones for nearly $1 million to ship two 19-cent lock washers and almost $500,000 to ship an $11 threaded plug.

"This was all because they wanted to live large at the government's expense," Assistant U.S. Attorney Debbie Barbier told the judge. "Every U.S. taxpayer is going to pay for their fraud."

Among the sisters' extravagant purchases were matching $96,000 Mercedes-Benz luxury cars, a $250,000 box at Clemson University's football stadium, four beach houses and hundreds of thousands of dollars in jewelry, prosecutors said.

"Mrs. Corley put her obscene, personal pleasure well ahead of her responsibility to act professionally and honestly in contracting with the government," Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin McDonald said.
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And this is why you think taxes can be slashed?

Let's do a little math. They stole $21 million. There are 326 million people in the US. 21/326 = .06

From your example, the US budget could afford a tax cut of 6 cents per year per citizen if there had been a system in place which would have prevented this kind of fraud.

Don't spend all six cents in one place...
 
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