Was it Cowardice by Police in the Texas school shooting?

LurchAddams said:
Yeah. Whatever.
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So, what if your ban was in place and that nutjob in Uvalde chose to buy say, five of these and use them on the school instead? No regulations on these right now.


You see, your knee jerk reaction is to ban the tool rather than do something to fix the problem. What you suggest is banning hammers because they smash thumbs.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
So, what if your ban was in place and that nutjob in Uvalde chose to buy say, five of these and use them on the school instead? No regulations on these right now.


You see, your knee jerk reaction is to ban the tool rather than do something to fix the problem. What you suggest is banning hammers because they smash thumbs.
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Holy shit! I did NOT think of that! Thanks so fucking much!

Hey: I've got something: what if this happens: Aliens from space come down and energy ray us.

We need to get these weapons of war off the street my friend.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Exactly. And in the interim, we can put such people on notice with the authorities such that they get the increased scrutiny they need when they need it.

For example, if we had a "shades of grey" Red Flag law, it might go like this:

Angry Nutter posts crazy stuff on social media about killing people and such.
People see this and report it.
The authorities make digital copies of Angry Nutter's posts and flag Angry Nutter as a potential threat.
Angry Nutter goes to a gun store to buy a weapon.
The store runs a check on Angry Nutter.
It comes back that Angry Nutter has been flagged as a possible risk.
The store's salesperson tells Angry Nutter, "Sorry, I can't sell you a gun today." He hands Angry Nutter a page with contact information. "I don't know what the problem is, but you need to contact one of these agencies and find out. Once you straighten things out with them, I'll be happy to sell you a gun. Would you like to make a down payment to hold it until things are cleared up?"

This is the current "Red Flag" situation where if you get on the 'list' you are screwed and getting off is a nightmare. Rather here, you have to go down to the local police station or the like and be interviewed for a few minutes about your crazy posts and such. If the interviewer decides you aren't the crazy threat the authorities thought you were, you're free to buy a gun. The system is tilted towards letting you buy rather than against you by design. The authorities want you to not be a nutjob. They want you to say you're just a troll, and prove it to a good degree. No draconian requirements involved.

Once you prove this, you get your gun and off you go happy with life once again.

Is it perfect? No. No system is going to be. The idea here is that say your angry ex- puts you on the list. You get denied. You go to the authorities and seeing the evidence (which they HAVE to show you), say "That's just my batshit crazy ex-, she hates me. I'm buying a new deer rifle for the season next month, she got my old one in the settlement."
The authorities let you buy a new deer rifle. Oh, the police might investigate the crazy ex- for frivolously putting you on the list too. Once the word gets out reporting someone frivolously or maliciously will get you arrested, that crap will mostly stop too.

In the Uvalde situation this might have stopped the crazy 18-year-old in his tracks.
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Bret and Heather talked a bit about this today. I am not in favor because where will will end up is exactly where the UTOPIANS want to end up, with the police/surveillance state watching us all 24/7, and crushing all dissent.....as the Chinese do. It will come with a social credit system where not only the wrong thinkers get hammered, but also the people in their lives. Obviously condemning the wrongthinker will help your score but friends and family will still not be unscathed.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Bret and Heather talked a bit about this today. I am not in favor because where will will end up is exactly where the UTOPIANS want to end up, with the police/surveillance state watching us all 24/7, and crushing all dissent.....as the Chinese do. It will come with a social credit system where not only the wrong thinkers get hammered, but also the people in their lives. Obviously condemning the wrongthinker will help your score but friends and family will still not be unscathed.
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Yea, that is the danger with letting bureaucrats have any control whatsoever. This would require a very short leash and a system that favors the person in every case. I think it could be done, but it would require a lot of effort in design and even then there would be no guarantee that it wouldn't eventually morph into the very thing it was supposed to avoid becoming.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Yea, that is the danger with letting bureaucrats have any control whatsoever. This would require a very short leash and a system that favors the person in every case. I think it could be done, but it would require a lot of effort in design and even then there would be no guarantee that it wouldn't eventually morph into the very thing it was supposed to avoid becoming.
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The West is dying....what you want has no chance of happening.

We will track with the Chinese, except that life in America will be much more brutal...the Chinese will insist.
 
LurchAddams said:
No. I saw the people doing the press conferences. They were NOT Hispanic. You have one more chance. I'm going to look at your next post. If its the same as this pile of troll you're going on ignore.

I really want to make friends here. But your lack of empathy for these poor kids.. I mean. Just fuck you. I know your next post is going to be lowbrow.

You really could have learned stuff from me. Have fun shitting all over yourself for the rest of your sorry life, troll.
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The Chief is Hispanic you fucking idiot. So are most if not all of his officers...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-response-shooting-join-city-counse-rcna30910
 
So I just had to put Stone and several others on ignore. Their "spin" is that I "just can't handle the truth".

Yah. So. NO.

The reason I'm putting people like Stone, like Hawkey10, Dutch Uncle, like Guile on ignore is not because I can't handle debate. I LOVE debate. But.. these guys don't want to debate. What these guys are are like that shooter in Uvalde this week. All they want to do is find vulnerabilities in their perceived enemies and inflict as much pain as possible.

If you want to debate me.. I'm going to first have to know you're actually human with a soul. None of these guys have one. None of them exhibited the least bit of concern for the kids. All they wanted to do was troll us for being "hysterical" and telling us none of our ideas to fix this thing to work.

These guys I listed above are taking their queue from today's Republican. The don't care what the majority wants. They love that they can rule from the minority and taunt the majority about it - like those NRA fucks yesterday taunting and taking pics of the Uvalde mourners this week.

These people don't want to fix America. They hate themselves (Especially poor Hawkeye10, geez!) and just want to take out as many emotional victims as they can on their way out.

They're all like that Ramos kid.
 
Hey Lurch, why'd you "groan" my post about flamethrower drones? I'd really like to see your reasoning behind that. As I currently see it, it shows the utter stupidity of banning the tool rather than dealing with the root problem: Crazy, angry, deranged, or otherwise harmful people.

No matter how draconian the ban, no matter how totalitarian the government, people who have enough issues with whatever will find a way around them. Deal with the people, not the tool.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Hey Lurch, why'd you "groan" my post about flamethrower drones? It shows the utter stupidity of banning the tool rather than dealing with the root problem: Crazy, angry, deranged, or otherwise harmful people.

No matter how draconian the ban, no matter how totalitarian the government, people who have enough issues with whatever will find a way around them. Deal with the people, not the tool.
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One thing I've noticed.. this shooting has really shown who's who. People like Stone, Grokmaster, Guile, Dutch Uncle.. and several others. They see us upset about the shooting last week and all they want to do is inflict pain.. taunt us.. tell us we're being hysterical.. telling us we're "woke" and "gun grabber".

None of them have shown any sympathy for the kids. None of them. They're broken inside my friend. They hate themselves, like that Ramos kid, they're friendless, hateful of the world and all they want to do is to inflict maximum pain to everyone on the way out.

Do you care about the kids and teachers who were gunned down?

Do you think more could have been saved - or do you think it was all ok.. the cops waiting outside the door for an hour while kids on the other side were being terrorized during the last few minutes of their young lives.

Please show ME YOU have a soul. Lets see you express any sympathy about the kids. Or are you self-hating, evil, and broken like these other guys?
 
LurchAddams said:
One thing I've noticed.. this shooting has really shown who's who. People like Stone, Grokmaster, Guile, Dutch Uncle.. and several others. They see us upset about the shooting last week and all they want to do is inflict pain.. taunt us.. tell us we're being hysterical.. telling us we're "woke" and "gun grabber".

None of them have shown any sympathy for the kids. None of them. They're broken inside my friend. They hate themselves, like that Ramos kid, they're friendless, hateful of the world and all they want to do is to inflict maximum pain to everyone on the way out.

Do you care about the kids and teachers who were gunned down?

Do you think more could have been saved - or do you think it was all ok.. the cops waiting outside the door for an hour while kids on the other side were being terrorized during the last few minutes of their young lives.

Please show ME YOU have a soul. Lets see you express any sympathy about the kids. Or are you self-hating, evil, and broken like these other guys?
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I have deep sympathy for the losses those families suffered. I think that those, like you, that want to second guess the system that was in place at the time this happened and blame those that responded in a manner that wasn't perfect are the real assholes here. The cops did as they were trained based on the information they had.

The reaction that we should ban guns is both knee jerk and ineffective. Haters are going to hate. The real solution is to identify them and stop them before they do these heinous acts. Focus on the person, not the tool. Murder rates are a problem of our society and how it operates, not the access to some tool to carry it out. Ban guns and the next mass murderer might well opt for a flamethrower, or an IED (the Boston Marathon bomber for example).

I find these incidents horrific. But what I also find is most of them--virtually all--are the work of madmen. That is, the unbalanced, the insane, the discarded fringes of our society are the ones doing it. That's where the problem lies, not with the tool they choose to use.

Yet you, choose to groan me because I disagree with your solution.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I have deep sympathy for the losses those families suffered. I think that those, like you, that want to second guess the system that was in place at the time this happened and blame those that responded in a manner that wasn't perfect are the real assholes here. The cops did as they were trained based on the information they had.

The reaction that we should ban guns is both knee jerk and ineffective. Haters are going to hate. The real solution is to identify them and stop them before they do these heinous acts. Focus on the person, not the tool. Murder rates are a problem of our society and how it operates, not the access to some tool to carry it out. Ban guns and the next mass murderer might well opt for a flamethrower, or an IED (the Boston Marathon bomber for example).

I find these incidents horrific. But what I also find is most of them--virtually all--are the work of madmen. That is, the unbalanced, the insane, the discarded fringes of our society are the ones doing it. That's where the problem lies, not with the tool they choose to use.

Yet you, choose to groan me because I disagree with your solution.
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That's better. And in my opinion it is our unrestricted access to weapons of war that is the problem. I respect your opinion, and would you please respect mine?

I can't debate anyone I don't feel can feel. I can't. I'll share with you I'm not a kid. I've been around awhile. This Uvalde one has changed me. I keep seeing those little kids screaming trying not to die in a small room. I can no longer tolerate unfeeling people. I can't. Not after this. Never again.

Can you imagine being terrorized for just 5 min? Those poor little kids had to live in utter terror for an hour, begging for their lives WHILE THOSE EVIL, RACIST COPS STOOD ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DOOR, LISTENED TO IT, AND DID NOTHING.

This should change any normal person my friend.
 
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LurchAddams said:
That's better. And in my opinion it is our unrestricted access to weapons of war that is the problem. I respect your opinion, and would you please respect mine?

I can't debate anyone I don't feel can feel. I can't. I'll share with you I'm not a kid. I've been around awhile. This Uvalde one has changed me. I keep seeing those little kids screaming trying not to die in a small room. I can no longer tolerate unfeeling people. I can't. Not after this. Never again.
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The solution to events like Uvalde isn't based in emotion and feelings. It should be based in what works. We should not want this to happen again and the solution is to start paying attention to those--almost always male--who are mentally unstable or have been living on the fringes of society, unwanted. They are the ones that do this again and again. They also aren't stupid. Most of them are reasonably intelligent--not brilliant but definitely not stupid.
We ignore them until their isolation, rejection, humiliation, and being bullied brings their hatred and anger to a boil. Then they carefully plot their revenge against those that have tormented them. We need to fix that to stop these events. Banning firearms will do nothing.

Remember Columbine? Those two fit that description perfectly. They also built several IED's that that brought to their massacre that failed to detonate. Given no firearms, they might well have put much more effort into ensuring they worked with the same result.

It isn't the tool but the person wielding it that we need to be looking at.

I'll add, I'm pragmatic. I want what works. I don't want solutions to problems based on emotions and feelings. It is rare that some kneejerk, emotional reaction actually works. So, while I can definitely feel this incident was horrific, the solution isn't one based on emotions.
 
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T. A. Gardner said:
The solution to events like Uvalde isn't based in emotion and feelings. It should be based in what works. We should not want this to happen again and the solution is to start paying attention to those--almost always male--who are mentally unstable or have been living on the fringes of society, unwanted. They are the ones that do this again and again. They also aren't stupid. Most of them are reasonably intelligent--not brilliant but definitely not stupid.
We ignore them until their isolation, rejection, humiliation, and being bullied brings their hatred and anger to a boil. Then they carefully plot their revenge against those that have tormented them. We need to fix that to stop these events. Banning firearms will do nothing.

Remember Columbine? Those two fit that description perfectly. They also built several IED's that that brought to their massacre that failed to detonate. Given no firearms, they might well have put much more effort into ensuring they worked with the same result.

It isn't the tool but the person wielding it that we need to be looking at.
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But it IS the tool. Only in America can an 18 year-old sociopath legally buy a gun and enough ammo to take down an army, legally.

And not only that.. Australia took their weapons off the street, so did New Zealand.. would you like me to post the numbers on not only that, but how shootings deaths dropped before the assaults ban was reauthorized by Bush, here?

I'm sorry. I promise you, I don't want anyone to be vulnerable or defenseless. If I though I needed a pistol, I would have no problem getting one.

No one needs an AR15 to defend themselves or hunt. In my opinion.
 
LurchAddams said:
But it IS the tool. Only in America can an 18 year-old sociopath legally buy a gun and enough ammo to take down an army, legally.

And not only that.. Australia took their weapons off the street, so did New Zealand.. would you like me to post the numbers on not only that, but how shootings deaths dropped before the assaults ban was reauthorized by Bush, here?

I'm sorry. I promise you, I don't want anyone to be vulnerable or defenseless. If I though I needed a pistol, I would have no problem getting one.

No one needs an AR15 to defend themselves or hunt. In my opinion.
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It isn't the tool. If it was, then these people would-- and could--massacre thousands... (oh, I really like VICE and it's definitely not Conservative)

 
T. A. Gardner said:
Hey Lurch, why'd you "groan" my post about flamethrower drones? I'd really like to see your reasoning behind that. As I currently see it, it shows the utter stupidity of banning the tool rather than dealing with the root problem: Crazy, angry, deranged, or otherwise harmful people.

No matter how draconian the ban, no matter how totalitarian the government, people who have enough issues with whatever will find a way around them. Deal with the people, not the tool.
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I am truly baffled as to why he was able to buy an AR-15, just after he turned 18, but couldn't buy a handgun until he turned 21.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/26/gun-buying-age-texas-handguns-rifles-uvalde/
 
signalmankenneth said:
'Cowards': Uvalde Cops Face America's Wrath Over Bungled Shooting Response

Sure as hell looks like it?!!

[FONT=&]Police are facing heavy criticism and being labeled "cowards" for their response to the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, this week.
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[FONT=&]A total of 19 children, two adults and the alleged shooter Salvador Ramos were killed amid the shooting on Tuesday. Outrage has erupted online and on cable news after it was revealed that local police went inside the building minutes after the gunman entered unchallenged but quickly retreated and took cover. Ramos was killed by border patrol agents more than an hour later.
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[FONT=&]Texas Department of Public Safety (TDPS) Lieutenant Chris Olivarez told CNN that police did not engage with Ramos further due to concerns that they would have taken fire and officers "could have been shot." The word "cowards" trended on Twitter in reference to the police after news of the delay emerged.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]"The Uvalde police were a bunch of gutless cowards who shamed their badges," British TV personality Piers Morgan [/FONT]
https://twitter.com/x/status/1530240448706629638
[FONT=&] on Friday. "Heads should roll, and some of them should be charged with criminal negligence. They let those kids die."
[/FONT][FONT=&]
https://www.newsweek.com/cowards-uv...-wrath-over-bungled-shooting-response-1711103

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julius-caesar-119940.jpg
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They certainly delayed enough that any wounded kids might have had a chance.
They have to live with that.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
There is cause for outrage. But even so, it's most likely that the shooter had already done his work within minutes, and then barricaded himself in that classroom. It's hard to say that going in earlier would have made much difference.
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True, but a half hour? Heads should role for this!
 
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