Venezuala's economy ranks 62nd

[Minister of Truth]

What I get a kick out of is that ya'll are arguing as if socialism and capitalism were mutually exclusive. There's all sorts of examples in our very own nation where socialism works quite well for us. Public Education is one example. The Postal Service is another. Social Security is another, etc, etc.

That's not even accurate, because the govt. does not fully control those things. USPS is not the only entity in the postal business, Soc. Security is not the only retirement plan/benefit that is offered to seniors, and there is private education to compete with public.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Do you really think public education or the USPS are working well for us?

Yes. Indeed they are. Name one place else in the entire world that educates as many people to as high a standard of quality as cost effectively as the United States does. Name one! Same with the USPS. Name one other nation or company that can deliver the bulk postage in quantity and volume as cost effectively as the USPS does. Name one! UPS and the other parcel services are miniscule niche players compared to USPS.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I know your not an investor or business person. But ask one who is, being dropped from an index of foreign countries due to bad business climate is not good for venz citizens. Your false outrage at oil companies is naive and juvenille and funny.

It's not false outrage, in fact I'm not outraged at all. This is Venezuela's problem. I just don't trust our government's propaganda about Venezuela. After Bushco's backing of the failed coup on Chavez the US lost credibility on this issue. As I said, I don't view Hugo as no saint nor do I believe that the United Stats Government is looking out for the best interest of Venezuela. Though I have to be honest and say that has little to do with Venezuela being delisted from the S&P foreign index.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

That's not even accurate, because the govt. does not fully control those things. USPS is not the only entity in the postal business, Soc. Security is not the only retirement plan/benefit that is offered to seniors, and there is private education to compete with public.

You're confusing socialism with communism. The fact that these institutions have private sector competetion is irrelevent to the fact that they are socialized institutions.

 

[Damocles]

You're confusing socialism with communism. The fact that these institutions have private sector competetion is irrelevent to the fact that they are socialized institutions.

But it isn't irrelevant to their efficiency. Because they must compete with others seeking profit, they increase in efficiency and work more like the private institutions. Thus the object to keep away the encroachment. If we make it illegal to take an education at home, for instance.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

But it isn't irrelevant to their efficiency. Because they must compete with others seeking profit, they increase in efficiency and work more like the private institutions. Thus the object to keep away the encroachment. If we make it illegal to take an education at home, for instance.

True but no one has. Besides, that's not the point I was making. The point is, is that these socialized institutions are popular with the American public and they work pretty well. No one, for example, can come up with a private educational systems that can educate the vast numbers of people as cost affectively with the same level of quality as our public education does. So competition is not the issue here.

 

[uscitizen]

Venezuela was removed from the Dow Jones world index because of Chavez stealing international investors money.
LOL, BAC will defend the third world thug/dictator on that too I guess.

Is Chevron the only US oil company dealing with Hugo now?

 

[Topspin]

I don't know, but I bet we are getting fee's and not doing investments

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

By the way, NONE of you intellectual warriors have addresssed the data I posted about the historical and by-region perspectives on Venezuelan economy.

NONE of you.

Why would that be, he wonders.

So pointing out to you that THREE other countries in the region do indeed do better is not addressing your regional issues?

Something that you yet again ignore.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I'm sorry but facts are off-limits in this thread. In fact, anything that does not parrot the mantra of "Venezuela bad" is considered off-limits. Any regional comparison, which of course any serious analysis would consider, is considered off-limits and above the capacity of the VB crowd .. and surely it is above their capacity because NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAVE STEPPED UP TO ADDRESS IT

I have never seen such idiocy from you. YOU compared Venezuela to Mexico and Israel. I showed you that BOTH of them do better today for their citizens on average than Venezuela. Your response.... you ignore it.

You say to compare Venezuela to other countries in the region. I show you that Chile, Argentina and Mexico all do better than Venezuela. Your response.... 'golly gee none of them will address my point'.

You continue to try to change the parameters of the argument. Now you want to proclaim how good Venezuela is becuase of gains they made in the last ten years. Great... fine... put up the data from the other countries in the region to support that they have made the most improvements or that their improvements are not similar to that of Mexico who also benefitted from the oil boom.

Lets watch what happens when Chavez realizes his oil revenues just got cut by 65%.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Venezuela is a less developed country, obviously it won't have the same per capita GDP as the United States, Mexico, or Israel.

Also, if you're making an argument against socialism don't you think Israel is a bad example to be using?

Actually, I was not making an argument against socialism. Had you read the entire thread, you would have noted that it was BAC that compared Venezuela to Mexico and Israel initially. My response was to show him that he was incorrect in stating that Venezuela was doing better than those two.

I tossed in the US to show others that the US is not the best in the world when comparing GDP per capita.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yes. Indeed they are. Name one place else in the entire world that educates as many people to as high a standard of quality as cost effectively as the United States does. Name one! Same with the USPS. Name one other nation or company that can deliver the bulk postage in quantity and volume as cost effectively as the USPS does. Name one! UPS and the other parcel services are miniscule niche players compared to USPS.

Typically when you see those rankings for education in industrialized countries, the US is sub-standard. I will try to find the most recent of those.

I agree with you on the USPS.


"(AP) The United States is losing ground in education, as peers across the globe zoom by with bigger gains in student achievement and school graduations, a study shows.

Among adults age 25 to 34, the U.S. is ninth among industrialized nations in the share of its population that has at least a high school degree. In the same age group, the United States ranks seventh, with Belgium, in the share of people who hold a college degree.

By both measures, the United States was first in the world as recently as 20 years ago, said Barry McGaw, director of education for the Paris-based Organization for Cooperation and Development. The 30-nation organization develops the yearly rankings as a way for countries to evaluate their education systems and determine whether to change their policies.

McGaw said that the United States remains atop the "knowledge economy," one that uses information to produce economic benefits. But, he said, "education's contribution to that economy is weakening, and you ought to be worrying."

The report bases its conclusions about achievement mainly on international test scores released last December. They show that compared with their peers in Europe, Asia and elsewhere, 15-year-olds in the United States are below average in applying math skills to real-life tasks.

Top performers included Finland, Korea, the Netherlands, Japan, Canada and Belgium.

Given what the United States spends on education, its relatively low student achievement through high school shows its school system is "clearly inefficient," McGaw said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/13/national/main838207.shtml

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Typically when you see those rankings for education in industrialized countries, the US is sub-standard. I will try to find the most recent of those.

I agree with you on the USPS.


"(AP) The United States is losing ground in education, as peers across the globe zoom by with bigger gains in student achievement and school graduations, a study shows.

Among adults age 25 to 34, the U.S. is ninth among industrialized nations in the share of its population that has at least a high school degree. In the same age group, the United States ranks seventh, with Belgium, in the share of people who hold a college degree.

By both measures, the United States was first in the world as recently as 20 years ago, said Barry McGaw, director of education for the Paris-based Organization for Cooperation and Development. The 30-nation organization develops the yearly rankings as a way for countries to evaluate their education systems and determine whether to change their policies.

McGaw said that the United States remains atop the "knowledge economy," one that uses information to produce economic benefits. But, he said, "education's contribution to that economy is weakening, and you ought to be worrying."

The report bases its conclusions about achievement mainly on international test scores released last December. They show that compared with their peers in Europe, Asia and elsewhere, 15-year-olds in the United States are below average in applying math skills to real-life tasks.

Top performers included Finland, Korea, the Netherlands, Japan, Canada and Belgium.

Given what the United States spends on education, its relatively low student achievement through high school shows its school system is "clearly inefficient," McGaw said."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/13/national/main838207.shtml

I think you're missing my point here. The nations in which we are losing ground to in education also have socialized public education systems. The fact that their systems are out performing our doesn't change the fact that there socialized institutions and that private market educational systems cannot provide the economy of scale and cost effectiveness that our public education systems do.

 

[Damocles]

True but no one has. Besides, that's not the point I was making. The point is, is that these socialized institutions are popular with the American public and they work pretty well. No one, for example, can come up with a private educational systems that can educate the vast numbers of people as cost affectively with the same level of quality as our public education does. So competition is not the issue here.

Not true, there is a treaty that, if ratified, will do exactly that. It has already been agreed to by Canada and a few other places.

Also in it, zero spanking of children, and something about how you cannot force your kid to go to church or learn about your religion.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I think you're missing my point here. The nations in which we are losing ground to in education also have socialized public education systems. The fact that their systems are out performing our doesn't change the fact that there socialized institutions and that private market educational systems cannot provide the economy of scale and cost effectiveness that our public education systems do.

You are correct... when you said

"Name one place else in the entire world that educates as many people to as high a standard of quality as cost effectively as the United States does. Name one! "

... I totally mistook that for your wanting someone to name one that did better.

My bad.

 

[Damocles]

You are correct... when you said

"Name one place else in the entire world that educates as many people to as high a standard of quality as cost effectively as the United States does. Name one! "

... I totally mistook that for your wanting someone to name one that did better.

My bad.

He'll not admit that. Anything inferred, or even directly stated in a post of his cannot be meant as it was read, it can only be meant as he later tells you it was meant.

 

[uscitizen]

Yes. Indeed they are. Name one place else in the entire world that educates as many people to as high a standard of quality as cost effectively as the United States does. Name one! Same with the USPS. Name one other nation or company that can deliver the bulk postage in quantity and volume as cost effectively as the USPS does. Name one! UPS and the other parcel services are miniscule niche players compared to USPS.

Umm China? India?
Lots cheaper and their degrees are good.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

He'll not admit that. Anything inferred, or even directly stated in a post of his cannot be meant as it was read, it can only be meant as he later tells you it was meant.

lol... and here I thought I just misinterpreted his exact quote.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

You are correct... when you said

"Name one place else in the entire world that educates as many people to as high a standard of quality as cost effectively as the United States does. Name one! "

... I totally mistook that for your wanting someone to name one that did better.

My bad.

Thank you.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Umm China? India?
Lots cheaper and their degrees are good.

That's debatable but you could be right. Having said that, they both use socialized public education institutions (China's is communist). My point remains valid.