union as a civil right

Superfreak said:
I actually have no problem with them bargaining.

Just make sure they are bargaining with the right people.

The taxpayers.

Let them present there case for increased benefits or wage increases above the pace of inflation. Then have a public referendum on it.

Done.
Click to expand...

they negotiate with the elected representatives of the taxpayers
 
Schadenfreude said:
they negotiate with the elected representatives of the taxpayers
Click to expand...
Which they have usually bought. It's all a great winky-winky nudge-nudge thing. The representatives know they will not be in office when the brown and smelly substance hits the electrical convenience. Almost all the agreements happen behind closed doors. The unions fight to keep it that way, the public just doesn't "need to know"...

In this case, they need to negotiate with the people.
 
Damocles said:
Which they have usually bought. It's all a greatthing. The representatives know they will not be in office when the brown and smelly substance hits the electrical convenience. Almost all the agreements happen behind closed doors. The unions fight to keep it that way, the public just doesn't "need to know"...

In this case, they need to negotiate with the people.
Click to expand...

So, since a lot of the police and fire voted for Walker, they paid for him, too? winky-winky nudge-nudge
 
Rana said:
So, since a lot of the police and fire voted for Walker, they paid for him, too? winky-winky nudge-nudge
Click to expand...

I think, if the firefighters and police unions had their weight behind Walker, then yes, they paid for him too.
 
WinterBorn said:
Post #3 is full of questions.

"unions are opposed to open shop rules......is that a civil right?.....

union rank and file generally votes 50/50 between Democrats and Republicans.....political contributions from mandatory union dues is spent 93/7 in favor of Democrats.....is that a civil right?......

unions are pressing for an end to secret ballots on union formation.....is that a civil right?"



Now, did you get it this time?
Click to expand...

Sure, they are querries, but not legitimate questions. Do you understand the difference, or not?
 
Damocles said:
Who here is saying they should be outlawed? I find it interesting that FDR was against public unions. Was he "dictatorial"?

I also wonder if you think the Soviet Union was totalitarian?
Click to expand...

Of all the presidents, who was the most "dictatorial"? Who enacted the first War Powers Act? Who tried to change the Supreme Court? Need I go on?
 
What I want to know is, if unions are a human right, why can't managers or supervisors form unions? Are they less than human? I mean, collective bargaining is a two way street, why shouldn't we allow ALL people to better represent the position of their job?
 
C'Thulhu said:
What I want to know is, if unions are a human right, why can't managers or supervisors form unions? Are they less than human? I mean, collective bargaining is a two way street, why shouldn't we allow ALL people to better represent the position of their job?
Click to expand...

typically management types think that they are too good to join a union
 
Did you note your examples of management violence were ALL on foreign soil with the exception of one that dates back to 1949?

You fricking idiot~



Originally Posted by Rana
Well, you are wrong once again, there has been violence on both sides, as always!

Management violence

Management violence usually takes the form of bullying of or aggression against union organisers or sympathisers in the workplace. It is rarely if ever delivered by employers or senior managers directly, but by front-line managers (e.g. chargehands or foremen) or by other employees incited by management. In a number of well-known cases, however, violent action has been taken against union workers, and unions have charged that this was at the instigation of management or of government bodies sympathetic to management's aims. Well known examples include:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chea_Vichea, leader of the Free Trade Union of Workers of the Kingdom of Cambodia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia on January 22, 2004.[1] He had been dismissed by the INSM Garment Factory (located in the Chum Chao District of Phnom Penh), as a reprisal for helping to establish a trade union at the company.

Isidro Gil, a leader of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...dustry_Workers at the Bogotá - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia bottling plant of the Coca-Cola company who was shot dead at the plant on December 5, 1996. Four other leaders of the union have been killed since 1994, as have other union leaders in Colombia.

Shankar Guha Niyogi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, a leader of the Mukti Morcha union movement in the India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, on September 27, 1991,[2] allegedly by a hired assassin, in the middle of a major dispute about the regularisation of workers' contracts in the steel and engineering industries. The alleged assassin and two industrialists were convicted of his murder but released on appeal; their release is itself now subject to appeal.

Victor G. Reuther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, a leader of the United Auto Workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, who survived an assassination attempt in 1949, with the loss of his right eye.[3]

Violence against union leaders can occur within a highly charged political context, and is rare in straightforward industrial disputes - not least because historically, management has often had ready recourse to the law to enforce its position. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolpuddle_martyrs were Penal transportation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and firearms by the police.
[edit] Union violence

Union violence is rarely aimed at managers or employers. Attacks on employers' property do occur - the word Sabotage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia derives from French workers' practice of hurling their clogs (sabots) into machinery as a form of protest - in the furtherance of industrial disputes. A modern example was the destruction of electrical transformers by members of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/I]]

The targets of true union violence are normally nonunion workers.[Wikipedia:Citation needed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.[4]
Examples of union violence include:

2004 AFL-CIO push their way into a Republican field office in Orlando FL, breaking the wrist of one staffer. AFL-CIO member Van Church is unrepentant: "If his wrist was fractured, it's a result of his own actions in jerking the door the way he did."

1999 - During protests by the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Local 1547 against a non-unionized workforce getting a contract, picketers threatened and assaulted workers, spat at them, sabotaged equipment, and shot guns near workers. The Alaska Supreme Court ruled that the union had engaged in "ongoing acts of intimidation, violence, destruction of property"
.
1999 - During protests by Laborers' International Union of North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Local 310, picketers punched a worker, and threw coffee cups at workers.

1999 - Members of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Local 120 were convicted of striking a worker, and imprisoning another one in a truck trailer.

1998 - Teamsters Orestes Espinosa, Angel Mielgo, Werner Haechler, Benigno Rojas, and Adrian Paez beat, kicked, and stabbed a United Parcel Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia worker (Rod Carter) who refused to strike, after Carter received a threatening phone call from the home of Anthony Cannestro, Sr., president of Teamsters Local 769.

1998 - During the Communications Workers of America U.S. West strike a worker was threatened with a gun, and a manager was hit in the head with a rock.
1990 - on the first day of The Daily News (New York) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Strikers followed replacement laborers and threatened them with baseball bats. Strikers then started threatening newsstands with arson, or stole all copies of the Daily News and burned them in front of the newsstands. Independent sources estimated over a thousand reports of threats. The newspaper recorded over two thousand legal violations. The Police Department, recorded more than 500 incidents. 50 strikers were arrested. Bombings of delivery trucks became common, with 11 strikers arrested on one day in October.

1984 - Taxi driver David Wilkie was killed by NUM strikers while driving a non-striking worker during the UK mining strike

1983 - Eddie York was murdered for crossing a United Mine Workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (UMW) picket line.

1926 - Striking workers derail The Flying Scotsman train with over 100 passengers on board

Union violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...
 
C'Thulhu said:
OR, and this is a maddening thought, they're legally barred from joining one.

Crazy I know, but what if?
Click to expand...

Do you not have Management Unions in the US? Some management have the best of both worlds. They have the opportunity - but seldom the encouragement - to be part of a union and they also have access to a myriad of clubs and organisations from which workers are barred, either by decree, qualification or by cost. Rotary clubs, round tables, professional organisations, the funny handshake brigade, golf clubs, sailing clubs, etc, ad infinitum.
Some one will now jump in with the fact that they are not a manager but are in a sailing club or they play golf or the shake hands in a certain way. That rather misses the point. Generally speaking, the poor, those who need the power of the unions to guard against exploitation, are barred from taking advantage. They are not professionally qualified, so there are few dinners on expense accounts at which little niggles can be discussed - you know the sort of thing - I won't offer my workers more if you don't offer your workers more, etc. They simply cannot afford to take time off work to play golf, to deck wives and girlfriends in the trappings of success, to own high end cars, to employ drivers.
These people need unions. Unions are the only thing many people have. To deny them membership is to deny basic human rights and, mark this well, my friends, waving flags for the rich and powerful will get you no more than a few measly crumbs from their heaving table and likely not even that.
 
Lowaicue said:
Do you not have Management Unions in the US? Some management have the best of both worlds. They have the opportunity - but seldom the encouragement - to be part of a union and they also have access to a myriad of clubs and organisations from which workers are barred, either by decree, qualification or by cost. Rotary clubs, round tables, professional organisations, the funny handshake brigade, golf clubs, sailing clubs, etc, ad infinitum.
Some one will now jump in with the fact that they are not a manager but are in a sailing club or they play golf or the shake hands in a certain way. That rather misses the point. Generally speaking, the poor, those who need the power of the unions to guard against exploitation, are barred from taking advantage. They are not professionally qualified, so there are few dinners on expense accounts at which little niggles can be discussed - you know the sort of thing - I won't offer my workers more if you don't offer your workers more, etc. They simply cannot afford to take time off work to play golf, to deck wives and girlfriends in the trappings of success, to own high end cars, to employ drivers.
These people need unions. Unions are the only thing many people have. To deny them membership is to deny basic human rights and, mark this well, my friends, waving flags for the rich and powerful will get you no more than a few measly crumbs from their heaving table and likely not even that.
Click to expand...
No, they're legally barred from forming unions here.
 
C'Thulhu said:
No, they're legally barred from forming unions here.
Click to expand...

maybe it is that only people who work for a living can join :)

or that management has to side with their employers

what works better for both workers and management is to own part of the company through stock in some companies half of the company stock is reserved for workers
 
Schadenfreude said:
maybe it is that only people who work for a living can join :)

or that management has to side with their employers

what works better for both workers and management is to own part of the company through stock in some companies half of the company stock is reserved for workers
Click to expand...
So they're not humans is what your saying. Got it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top