Unintended Consequences of Citizens United

[Bonestorm]

When single payer creates a cookie cutter 'coverage' list... what happens when an item someone wants covered... ISN'T?

It does nothing to change the situation. Unless you go to the 'everything is covered for everyone and we will stick future generations with the bill' plan.

Everyone gets a basic coverage plan and if you want a supplemental plan to cover things the basic plan doesn't cover, you can buy one. It's not really that hard.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Bravo, true to form picks the least credible right wing argument and runs with it.

Look moron; There is a scarcity of good paying jobs....there are many with no jobs at all who desperately want to work. This fact makes your argument not just meaningless, stupid and irrelevant, but also a ginormous insult to Americans, the most productive workers in the world.

No, your above ranting has nothing to do with his comments. A person still has the right to CHOOSE. Regardless of whether or not the labor market is loose or tight, the employee ALWAYS has a right to choose whether or not to accept part or all of a companies compensation offer.

That employee still has the right to go buy contraceptives. That does not change. The company is not forcing you to not use protection as the OP insinuated. They are not forcing their beliefs on anyone. They are telling you what they are going to cover... if you are an employee, you can either accept it or refuse it. Or the employee can fight to try and change it.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Everyone gets a basic coverage plan and if you want a supplemental plan to cover things the basic plan doesn't cover, you can buy one. It's not really that hard.

ROFLMAO... which is precisely what they are able to do if a company plan doesn't offer contraceptive coverage. Which has been my point the entire time. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. Whether it is a corporate plan or a single payer... there will be things that aren't covered. It is up to the individual at that point to determine how they want to pay for the non-covered items.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Everyone gets a basic coverage plan and if you want a supplemental plan to cover things the basic plan doesn't cover, you can buy one. It's not really that hard.

Also... how are the poor going to pay for the extra stuff? Or do you think only the wealthy should be able to be fully covered? Why do you hate the poor?

 

[Bonestorm]

ROFLMAO... which is precisely what they are able to do if a company plan doesn't offer contraceptive coverage. Which has been my point the entire time. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. Whether it is a corporate plan or a single payer... there will be things that aren't covered. It is up to the individual at that point to determine how they want to pay for the non-covered items.

But the non-covered items in this instance should be covered items.

 

[Bonestorm]

Also... how are the poor going to pay for the extra stuff? Or do you think only the wealthy should be able to be fully covered? Why do you hate the poor?

Yeah, you're right, SF, Champion of the Working Poor. Providing poor people with comprehensive health insurance is so hateful.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

But the non-covered items in this instance should be covered items.

LMAO... which anyone can say about any of the items not covered. YOU think they should be covered. What happens if you think the government should cover something and they don't? Oh yeah, same thing that happens if a company plan doesn't cover something you think they should.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yeah, you're right, SF, Champion of the Working Poor. Providing poor people with comprehensive health insurance is so hateful.

Oh mighty king of the straw men... how easily you beat upon your own creations.

What I actually stated is: beyond the coverage of a single payer plan, you stated people could simply buy supplemental coverage. I then asked you how it is the poor would be able to afford this supplemental coverage?

 

[Bonestorm]

LMAO... which anyone can say about any of the items not covered. YOU think they should be covered. What happens if you think the government should cover something and they don't? Oh yeah, same thing that happens if a company plan doesn't cover something you think they should.

No, it's not that I think they should be covered. It's that a panel of medical experts recommended that they be included as part of a minimal essential benefits package for health insurance plans. I defer to their judgment on such things and would advocate for the same under a single-payer system. I'd much rather that then to rely on the whims of individual employers who decide that contraception makes Jesus cry.

 

[Bonestorm]

Oh mighty king of the straw men... how easily you beat upon your own creations.

What I actually stated is: beyond the coverage of a single payer plan, you stated people could simply buy supplemental coverage. I then asked you how it is the poor would be able to afford this supplemental coverage?

Maybe if you cut the baiting shit out you'd get a different response. Just a suggestion. The poor probably couldn't afford supplemental coverage in most instances. But they'd still be better off than the Rube Goldberg system that the ACA created and the various collateral attacks on what employers have to provide and such.

 

[Teflon Don]

No, it's not that I think they should be covered. It's that a panel of medical experts recommended that they be included as part of a minimal essential benefits package for health insurance plans. I defer to their judgment on such things and would advocate for the same under a single-payer system. I'd much rather that then to rely on the whims of individual employers who decide that contraception makes Jesus cry.

Or you could end employer and government funded insurance and pay for your own birth control pills.

You see when you expect someone else to pay for your stuff you really aren't in a position to impose your desires on them.

Now if paid for your own stuff it wouldn't be a problem. I find it shocking that in a world where women are paying $10 a day for their cinnamon flavored mocha lattes they can't afford $9 a month to not get pregnant. Maybe women really do need to be taken care of

 

[Bonestorm]

Or you could end employer and government funded insurance and pay for your own birth control pills.

Yes, you could. But I don't think that's a very good idea.

You see when you expect someone else to pay for your stuff you really aren't in a position to impose your desires on them.

The government is certainly in a position to tax people and provide health insurance to its citizens and to have that insurance cover whatever services the goverment wishes.

Now if paid for your own stuff it wouldn't be a problem. I find it shocking that in a world where women are paying $10 a day for their cinnamon flavored mocha lattes they can't afford $9 a month to not get pregnant. Maybe women really do need to be taken care of

I find it shocking that you haven't drowned on your own spit.

 

[Teflon Don]

Yes, you could. But I don't think that's a very good idea.



The government is certainly in a position to tax people and provide health insurance to its citizens and to have that insurance cover whatever services the goverment wishes.



I find it shocking that you haven't drowned on your own spit.

Why isn't it a good idea to pay for your own stuff? Why do you want to turn over something as personal and important as your healthcare to politicians?

 

[Bonestorm]

Why isn't it a good idea to pay for your own stuff? Why do you want to turn over something as personal and important as your healthcare to politicians?

(1) I don't think that the whims of a capitalist market, where those who can pay receive healthcare and those who can't pay don't, is an ethical or moral manner of allocating health care resources.

(2) I don't want to turn over my healthcare to politicians.

 

[Teflon Don]

(1) I don't think that the whims of a capitalist market, where those who can pay receive healthcare and those who can't pay don't, is an ethical or moral manner of allocating health care resources.

(2) I don't want to turn over my healthcare to politicians.

How is it not moral? And aren't you guys always saying you can't legislate ones morality? So does that mean I can legislate my morality?

Also did you not say that you want the government to collect taxes and provide healthcare? How is that not turning it over to politicians?

He can the government give you more choices and options than you yourself?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

No, it's not that I think they should be covered. It's that a panel of medical experts recommended that they be included as part of a minimal essential benefits package for health insurance plans. I defer to their judgment on such things and would advocate for the same under a single-payer system. I'd much rather that then to rely on the whims of individual employers who decide that contraception makes Jesus cry.

Yes, it is that you think they should be covered, hence your mocking corporations that disagree with your 'makes jesus cry' crap.

 

[Bonestorm]

How is it not moral? And aren't you guys always saying you can't legislate ones morality? So does that mean I can legislate my morality?

Markets are amoral. Because they are amoral, some things should not be allocated according to market principles.

Also did you not say that you want the government to collect taxes and provide healthcare? How is that not turning it over to politicians?

No, I did not say that. I said that the government should tax and provide health insurance, which is different from providing health care.

He can the government give you more choices and options than you yourself?

This question makes no sense at all. There are a couple of actors you've left out here, including, at a minimum, employers and health insurers.

 

[Bonestorm]

Yes, it is that you think they should be covered, hence your mocking corporations that disagree with your 'makes jesus cry' crap.

Well, I think they should be covered because the experts things they should be covered. And I'm not mocking corporations, but individual people who think contraception is icky.

 

[Teflon Don]

Markets are amoral. Because they are amoral, some things should not be allocated according to market principles.




No, I did not say that. I said that the government should tax and provide health insurance, which is different from providing health care.




This question makes no sense at all. There are a couple of actors you've left out here, including, at a minimum, employers and health insurers.

I don't wish to argue with about the morality of free markets because I realize that it is a useless endeavor and you will not be convinced. What I am asking is why you think your morality should be legislated? Does that mean I can legislate my morality?

Health insurance pays for healthcare. To think that one does not impact the other shows a lack of understanding

I am on Tapatalk so sometimes the auto spell gets me. The question is how can the government offer you more choices than you can offer yourself?

 

[Timshel]

That is what I thought... typical coward... spouting off crap and then refusing to back it up... AGAIN.

I stated an obvious fact. You are spouting irrelevant nonsense and jumping to conclusions based on your lack of intellectual honesty.