U.S. government lost $11.2 billion on General Motors bailout U.S U.S. government lost

[Teflon Don]

By "one car company," did you mean to say "the last of America's manufacturing base, for which countless people depended on jobs, including not only GM employees, but dealers, suppliers, towns throughout the United States and the businesses that cater to those towns"?

Run any #'s you like. GM tanking would have been a huge loss to the economy; to try to compare it to an extra $1 billion will embarass you any way that you slice it.

You keep embarrassing yourself by parroting left wing talking points. You obviously don't understand how bankruptcy works. They would not have just closed up shop. And had there still be a demand for the services you claim, that demand would have just shifted to other dealers, auto makers, etc. So this "hit" to the economy you claim is unsubstantiated and only exists in left wing brains to justify Obama and Bush's unlawful actions.

 

[cancel2 2022]

How to determine when a story is outright bullshit:

"More than half of the 1.56 million troops who have been discharged to date have received medical treatment at VA [Dept of Veteran Affairs] facilities and been granted benefits for the rest of their lives,"

Two facts; the ENTIRE military in the US is less than 1.56 million personnel in TOTAL; it takes quite a stretch to claim that MORE troops have been discharged than are actually in the service.

Second; the claim is that 780,000 former military are injured and being treated for injuries. We don't even have that many serving in the Army.

Just common sense should make one scratch their heads and wonder where they come up with their moronic claims and figures.

But of course, this is not about facts or common sense; it is an agenda based on hatred of AmeriKa and what she stands for and this desperate desire to turn AmeriKa into the same failed miserable leftist malaise that grasps Europe with high unemployment, low productivity and Government dependency.

Last time I checked Harvard was in the US not the UK and the Telegraph is hardly a left of centre newspaper.

 

[Truth Detector]

Last time I checked Harvard was in the US not the UK and the Telegraph is hardly a left of centre newspaper.

I don't care where Harvard is or what you think the political perspective of the Telegraph is; I am merely calling out bullshit when I see it.

Most bullshit that I read appears to have its roots in Liberal dunces regardless of the educational foundations. Harvard is full of educated derelicts that erupt with agenda based bullshit.

 

[cancel2 2022]

You’re British I believe; you couldn't begin to comprehend what our Constitution is and why the Federal Government should have NOTHING to do with subsidizing private enterprise.

As for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, simple minded twit’s think that despots, dictators and tyrants should be free to invade and attack peaceful nations because spending the money to prevent despots is just too hard on society.

Do you even comprehend how weak and stupid such arguments are about war? Apparently, being from a nation where Chamberlain removed any doubt why Liberal twits who cave into despotic tyrants should never be in charge of anything, you haven't learned a thing from history.

As for these cost claims of the trillions in war costs, that is loony math from loopy AmeriKa hating Marxist lefties who will fabricate their versions of reality to support their naive failed world views.

Yes, peace and freedom comes at a price; now read a book and get a clue. But not to worry, you Europeans have outsourced your defense onto the US a long time ago and soon will find yourselves at the mercy of the former Soviet Union once Liberals in this country have given up any hint of global leadership and outsourced it to....(laughing here).....the UN; have some cheese with that whine.

The Federal government subsidises the military industrial complex all the time, how else to explain all the white elephants down the years. How about the B1, B2, V22 Osprey and the biggest of all the F-35.

I was opposed to the 2003 Iraq War and have seen nothing since to convince me that I was wrong. I have always been for the military presence in Afghanistan, if for no other reason than to stop the Taliban taking over in Pakistan.

 

[cancel2 2022]

I don't care where Harvard is or what you think the political perspective of the Telegraph is; I am merely calling out bullshit when I see it.

Most bullshit that I read appears to have its roots in Liberal dunces regardless of the educational foundations. Harvard is full of educated derelicts that erupt with agenda based bullshit.

Some of the cost comes from the fact that the wars were paid for by incurring debt and hence the huge interest payments needed to service those debts. As for the numbers of personnel, that's not a snapshot of the military at any one time but over more than a decade.

 

[Truth Detector]

The Federal government subsidises the military industrial complex all the time,

Wrong; it finances a “defense industry” that provides very high tech equipment to DEFEND the nation and our allies.

how else to explain all the white elephants down the years. How about the B1, B2, V22 Osprey and the biggest of all the F35.

Well, if you think that the B1 or B2 are white elephants, you apparently do not know how these bombers operate.

Of course, the uneducated think that new technology should never have failures and costs attributed with them because they seldom care how the REAL world actually operates.

But again, you attempt to deflect off tangent from the reality that this story was full of bullshit from the start and that Europe gave up its security to fund the welfare fraud of Socialism on its people a very long time ago and outsourced it to the US; while also lampooning the US and criticizing our defense spending; rather odd and ironic don’t you think?

The Federal Government of the United States has a clearly defined purpose in our constitution; defend the nation and administer her laws….nothing more. All other rights are reserved to the States. It has made us the most powerful and free nation on the planet; no reason to try to become European wallowing in malaise, riots and despair.

I was always opposed to the 2003 Iraq War and have seen nothing since to convince me that I was wrong.

Of course you were and of course you haven’t been convinced. You never will because you willingly ignore reality and facts and wallow in well intentioned foolishness.

Let me ask you this; did you support Desert Storm and the ejection of Saddam’s army from Kuwait?

I have always been for the military presence in Afghanistan, if for no other reason than to stop the Taliban taking over in Pakistan.

I am amused that you think that Afghanistan is any different than Iraq. Both were identical cases of despots attacking US or our allies and who thumbed their noses at US and the UN when given ultimatums.

But I do have more respect for those who are consistent than for morons like Hillary and Kerry who were FOR the war before they were AGAINST it for purely partisan political gain.

Seeing that we are dragging this thread way off topic; who do you think will enforce future UN resolutions after the US has abrogated and subjugated its leadership to the UN? Europe? LMAO

 

[Truth Detector]

Some of the cost comes from the fact that the wars were paid for by incurring debt and hence the huge interest payments needed to service those debts.

The story is bullshit and attempts to exaggerate the actual costs for a Liberal agenda. The debt incurred by our Federal Government is not due to defense spending, but because of the unconstitutional largess promoted by Liberal Democrat ideologues wanting to ensure their political futures by creating a Nanny State for gullible low information voters who think you can get something for nothing.

As for the numbers of personnel, that's not a snapshot of the military at any one time but over more than a decade.

It ignores the FACT that even without the wars, there would be fixed costs to maintain and support a Military.

It is a bullshit number because our casualties were incredibly low as war goes and attempts to argue that over 700,000 were injured or killed in some manner.

KIA in Iraq = 4,287 Wounded = 30,182

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

KIA in Afghanistan = 2,047 Wounded = 18,215.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/342168

Claiming that 700,000 plus have been under veteran care due to the war is a massive exaggeration of epic proportions no matter how many years you parse it over.

Just to give this some perspective, “Motor vehicle crashes in the United States result in more than 40,000 deaths per year,” says the Institute in the journal Injury Prevention. “That is, on each of the 6,209 consecutive days included in this study, an equivalent of a plane load or more of people died on the roads.”

....there are about 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States each year. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

For Liberals, this would equate to 440,000 American deaths over the same 11 year time span. Compared to the 6,334 deaths as a result of our two wars, the deaths from cars is immense don't you think?

So please; spare me your weak defense of this articles bullshit claim. It doesn't come close to reality, the truth or anything that could be mistaken for honesty.

 

[cancel2 2022]

The story is bullshit and attempts to exaggerate the actual costs for a Liberal agenda. The debt incurred by our Federal Government is not due to defense spending, but because of the unconstitutional largess promoted by Liberal Democrat ideologues wanting to ensure their political futures by creating a Nanny State for gullible low information voters who think you can get something for nothing.



It ignores the FACT that even without the wars, there would be fixed costs to maintain and support a Military.

It is a bullshit number because our casualties were incredibly low as war goes and attempts to argue that over 700,000 were injured or killed in some manner.

KIA in Iraq = 4,287 Wounded = 30,182

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

KIA in Afghanistan = 2,047 Wounded = 18,215.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/342168

Claiming that 700,000 plus have been under veteran care due to the war is a massive exaggeration of epic proportions no matter how many years you parse it over.

Just to give this some perspective, “Motor vehicle crashes in the United States result in more than 40,000 deaths per year,” says the Institute in the journal Injury Prevention. “That is, on each of the 6,209 consecutive days included in this study, an equivalent of a plane load or more of people died on the roads.”

....there are about 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States each year. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

For Liberals, this would equate to 440,000 American deaths over the same 11 year time span. Compared to the 6,334 deaths as a result of our two wars, the deaths from cars is immense don't you think?

So please; spare me your weak defense of this articles bullshit claim. It doesn't come close to reality, the truth or anything that could be mistaken for honesty.

Regardless of whether you consider it to be bullshit or not, military.com has carried the story as well. Are they all wishy washy liberals as well?

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/03/29/harvard-study-iraq-and-afghan-war-tab-46-trillion.html

 

[Celticguy]

The cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could reach as high as $6 trillion dollars – or $75,000 for every household in America – a new study from Harvard University has found.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...raq-and-Afghan-wars-could-hit-6-trillion.html

All very interesting nut what has it to do with the American taxpayers and GM stockholders and creditors being swindled out of billions to enricj unions ?

 

[cancel2 2022]

All very interesting nut what has it to do with the American taxpayers and GM stockholders and creditors being swindled out of billions to enricj unions ?

Quite a lot really, you have right wingers complaining about a few billion to save a company whose bankruptcy would have caused immense harm in the US and worldwide defending the truly terrifying amounts spent on Iraq which have just basically been poured down the drain.

 

[Truth Detector]

Regardless of whether you consider it to be bullshit or not, military.com has carried the story as well. Are they all wishy washy liberals as well?

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/03/29/harvard-study-iraq-and-afghan-war-tab-46-trillion.html

Yes and Andy Rooney worked for Stars and Stripes. But even when the facts are presented to you, you desperately cling to that false dialogue; naive at best.

 

[Truth Detector]

Quite a lot really, you have right wingers complaining about a few billion to save a company

Wrong; it isn’t the amount. It is the FACT that it is not the Federal Governments job to pick the winners and losers in the economy or to subsidize them. It is BAD policy at best, misguided at least and a naked partisan political act.

whose bankruptcy would have caused immense harm in the US and worldwide

This, again, is a completely false strawman claim and merely a leftist talking point that has no basis in reality, the truth or the facts.

defending the truly terrifying amounts spent on Iraq which have just basically been poured down the drain.

They were not truly terrifying nor were the casualties very high considering wars in a historic sense.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Wrong; it isn’t the amount. It is the FACT that it is not the Federal Governments job to pick the winners and losers in the economy or to subsidize them. It is BAD policy at best, misguided at least and a naked partisan political act.



This, again, is a completely false strawman claim and merely a leftist talking point that has no basis in reality, the truth or the facts.



They were not truly terrifying nor were the casualties very high considering wars in a historic sense.

No doubt you were against TARP as well!

 

[Celticguy]

Quite a lot really, you have right wingers complaining about a few billion to save a company whose bankruptcy would have caused immense harm in the US and worldwide defending the truly terrifying amounts spent on Iraq which have just basically been poured down the drain.

Only problem is that buying the company was unnecessary and contradictory to how bankruptcy is handled here and against all precident. Not to mention without constitutional authority. Think back to Lee Iacoco' loan from the US to save Chrysler, it was a loan no ownership. That is your precident. At least defense is allowed for in the constitution.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Only problem is that buying the company was unnecessary and contradictory to how bankruptcy is handled here and against all precident. Not to mention without constitutional authority. Think back to Lee Iacoco' loan from the US to save Chrysler, it was a loan no ownership. That is your precident. At least defense is allowed for in the constitution.

I am sure that Japan would have been deliriously happy for GM and Chrysler to burn and crash.

 

[Celticguy]

I am sure that Japan would have been deliriously happy for GM and Chrysler to burn and crash.

If only there was some validity to your scenario. Alas there is none.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

I can't believe that this thread is seriously still going.

We're talking about an extra billion. Can any of you righties do math?

 

[Truth Detector]

No doubt you were against TARP as well!

Yes I was. I never abided by this theory that without a massive infusion of tax payer money to prop up Wallstreet millionaires, the economy would collapse.

I could be wrong; but I prefer to err on the side of free markets and not massive Government intrusions on them.

 

[Truth Detector]

I am sure that Japan would have been deliriously happy for GM and Chrysler to burn and crash.

The problem with this strawman is that they wouldn't have burned and crashed without the Nanny State propping them up.

 

[Truth Detector]

If only there was some validity to your scenario. Alas there is none.

BINGO!!